So, over at Patheos there was something going on about Wiccan Privilege. I was pretty much set to ignore it, because, well…Patheos tends to have a certain type of Pagan on there and decided to let it alone. After all, the Wild Hunt, supposed CNN of the Pagan world…couldn’t cut it over there, and it was one of the more “progressive liberal” rags I’d run into.
But apparently this whole deal of Wiccan Privilege is hitting more than just Patheos. Metal Gaia (an awesome blog, btw) threw her two cents in and that got me to finally sit down and bang my head…I mean keyboard.
I suppose the first place most people would start is talking about how Wicca is “Privileged” in comparison to other Pagan religions. (I can’t even remember what started this whole discussion, some sort of default to Wiccan rituals or something and someone got butthurt, maybe).
But I’m not going to start there. No, I’m going to start with looking at this whole Idea of Privilege and where it comes from. Mostly because I feel kinda crappy, tired, and annoyed at all this bs.
First off, we have to realize that the idea of privilege doesn’t even really have to do much with reality at this point. See, it all hails from the idea of Social Justice. For those of you not in the know, Social Justice has less to do with actual justice and more to do with taking down people you think have it better than you. Or punishing yourself because you think you have it better than someone else because you’re privileged.
Of course, the major problem with Social Justice and adhering to social justice as a cause is that you have to be Just and on the side of Justice, which means that you have to be fighting against Privilege all the time. Because unless everyone is equal, there is no social justice…so if someone has something that someone else doesn’t, that’s privilege and must be fought against.
If you can’t see how stupid this gets…well, it’s possible you’re fighting for Social Justice.
To jump a bit off topic, and to clarify how Social Justice actual differs from actual Justice. In actual justice an innocent man should be fairly judged and released. According to social justice, its okay for an innocent man to go to prison for twenty years on a false allegation of say rape, just so that a woman shouldn’t feel like she might not be taken seriously if she comes to the cops to say she was raped. Why? Because men are privileged and women are disadvantaged and so we have to help women and men can suck it. Apparently.
And there’s a whole lot of criteria in social justice about who is privileged and who isn’t. For example a “white male Asatruar” has more privilege than a “black female Christian” despite the fact that the former is in a smaller group than the latter.
So now that we’ve got that bs out of the way….Wiccan Privilege!
So apparently a lot of Pagans…or some Pagans who have made Social Justice a tenant of their religion (one of the reasons I ended up leaving The Wild Hunt’s comments section) got mad about something involving Wiccans and their having privilege by being more well known and people assuming all Pagans are Wiccan.
Now, in a rational world we would be happy for Wiccans that they are so recognized and that they’ve managed to get Paganism out into the mainstream. Nope, the fact that more Wiccans have written books, that Wicca is remarkably easy to understand and practice, and that it’s been the go-to Pagan religion for media isn’t a reason to celebrate or for them to be well known. It’s clearly evidence that Wiccan are Privileged and this needs to be dealt with harshly because they aren’t My Pagan Religion!
Yeah…
Now look, Asatru is about as far from Wicca as Satanism is from Christianity, at least philosophically. Wicca tends to hold that there’s a Goddess and a God and they’re kind of what I would call Omni-beings that gave us the different gods and goddesses as Aspects of themselves, where as Asatru we typically hold that each God and Goddess is their own unique being. Wiccans hold that you can do whatever you please so long as it doesn’t hurt anyone. Asatru tends to believe that you can’t do whatever the heck you please, you have to act with honor…but it doesn’t matter if someone gets hurt in the process. Well, okay, it matters, but honor is put above pain and suffering of both yourself and others.
But just because there’s more out there about Wiccan and Wiccanish Paganism than Asatru and Heathenism doesn’t mean that they’re more privileged than me. It just means that Wicca came out in the 50’s rather than the (I think) 70’s for Asatru, that Wicca is a lot…kinder…than Heathenism, which in a world dominated by Christians means that Friendly Happy Pagans gets more attention than say…
Let’s face it. Vikings are awesome. We are not the kinda people however who make you feel easy around us. We fuck at the dinnertable, we slaughter our foes, we drink like fish, fight like men (even our women), and appear only to burn everything to the ground. And when you think of Wicca you get:
Let’s face it. People these days like things simple and easy to understand. Wicca give us this. Two Deities, Four elements, Goddess is more important than God, the rest is commentary,go and study. This means that for a lot of us Wicca is a bit light on the things that matter (I ended up not liking it partially because instead of being equal, in a lot of Wicca the God is either a second class deity or forgotten all together) but for the masses it makes it incredibly easy to pick up. Especially since for every one book about another tradition, there is at least fifteen books about Wicca. Heathenism, Druidism, Hedgewitchery, etc, can’t be stripped down like that. Heathenism has 40+ Gods, of which in order to really practice you have to know close to 20 of them and is filled with a number of terms that are hard to say. Druidism…have you even tried to say the names of Celtic Deities. Have you tried spelling them? 70% of them don’t even have vowels!!!!
You’d spend more time trying to explain what the heck you’re worshiping and explaining what it all means than you’d have to tell the story. I mean Hela, in my Getting Started section I’ve got 12 posts already just explaining the basic stuff and I’ve still probably got about a good 30 posts if I get back to it (which I’d like because I intend to make it a book someday). The History Channel show Vikings does a pretty decent job half the time, but even then it follows the story telling rule of show don’t tell, which is good…but it leaves you often wondering what’s going on if you aren’t already schooled in Norse Religion and Culture. I know this because I’ve had to explain stuff to people who aren’t Heathens…and sometimes even people who are Heathens. Which means the show is brilliantly written, but you don’t learn a lot about the religion or the Gods, because they’ve mentioned maybe 6 of them, give or take.
Wicca…five minutes, maybe an episode, and you’re good. You don’t have to explain the difference between Freya, Freyr, and Frigga.
That doesn’t mean Wicca is privileged though. That’s like saying Fruit Loops is privileged over Raisin Bran because more people eat Fruit Loops. No, Fruit Loops has more sugar and tastes sweater than Raisin Bran so people like it better. Or are addicted to it, idk.
And even if Wicca is privileged, who cares? They’ve worked long and hard as a religion to drag themselves out of the dark and become a quickly growing religion that hopefully within a decade or so will be a mainstream religion. They aren’t hurting anyone, and they’ve led nearly all of us to our present other Pagan religions because we like the idea, but not the execution, so we went for something else.
Privilege isn’t a bad thing. It means you worked hard, got lucky, and had something that someone else wanted. And just because someone is above you in the social consciousness doesn’t mean you have the right to go and tear them down just because they stand higher than you do. Nor should you. I mean, the whole idea that we should take away the things that someone else has simply because we don’t have them as a form of Justice spits in the face of what Justice actually is.
So let the Wiccans alone people. They’re a tiny fraction of the population and we grow as they grow. Just sit back and enjoy the ride, and if you don’t like it, find a way to package your religion in a quick and easy package and shill that shit to the masses.
Metalgaia said:
I love your reply! You articulated very well what I hate about this whole social justice ideal of “privledge.” I feel like Social Justice is focusing less on the oppression of the down trodden, and more about making those living the good life feel bad about themselves. Throughout most of my education, I was made to feel guilty simply for being a white person, even though neither me or my family had any connection to the greater imperialist/colonialist atrocities that have happened in this century and the last.
If we really want to help the down trodden, let’s create work projects for those who are out of work, let’s put environmental regulations in place to protect those who don’t have a voice – animals and plants, let’s put an end to human trafficking, so on and so forth.
Dragging everyone down to the same level makes the world flat. Guilt tripping people for being successful discourages success itself. I’m happy for Wiccans and their success. They have certainly worked hard to write a lot of books, create a system that is easy to follow and have even created a few Wiccan Churches.
One of my Heathen friends confessed to me that she wished she had been a Wiccan first, simply so she could have a foundation for ritual. She says she has a hard time constructing individual rituals as a heathen.
Anyone who says “check your privledge” is admitting that they don’t really have much of an argument, and are just trying to shut down the opposition without a debate. I don’t feel guilty about my ethnicity at all. I’m proud of my Celtic ancestors. I think the Celts have a beautiful culture and history. We respect our women and nature. Where’s the guilt in that?
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Lucius Svartwulf Helsen said:
Exactly. I find it hilarious when people try to get on me for “White guilt” and feeling bad for what white people have done. I just look at them and say “I’m from Norway. We didn’t do jack shit to anyone.” The entire idea that a Norwegain whose family was so poor they sent him to an orphanage, is as responsible and privilege as an English Merchant Barron is hilarious to me.
Especially when you get down to the fact that all these ideas of equality and racial harmony come from European born philosophers. It’s one of the things that never really gets answered. If Whites were so racist…why are whites the only ones who ever freed their slaves, much less led to the global banning of the slave trade?
The problem is though, that I think the goal with Social Justice is to make the world “flat.” In a lot of ways, Social Justice can be traced back to the ideas of Christ, that everyone should be equal and that those who are above us in society need to give up their wealth and power in order to live like those below them in order to obtain salvation. Or in this case “justice.”
I’d say tell your heathen friend to come to my site, I’ve got some stuff on rituals and I know a few Heathen Ritual books. Wicca does have a leg up in that they are ritual masters. They’re kinda like the Catholics of the Pagan world, with all their rituals. Heathens…not so much. Give Thor a beer and that’s about our rituals, or at least what we’ve got preserved.
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Metalgaia said:
“Give Thor a beer and that’s about our rituals, or at least what we’ve got preserved.”
LOL, I can dig it.
But yeah, what people need to understand about global imperalism, is that most of it was put in place by a small group of privledged people at the top of the food chain. Europeans overall did not benefit from the plundering of India and Africa, a small group of incredibly wealthy Europeans did.
Even in the American Slave trade, one fact that we ignore is that only 5% of white southerners even owned slaves. Of course the slave trade was a horrible evil against mankind, and it’s great that it ended. But the way that it is taught, is to make children believe that every white man in the south owned a slave. This is rubbish. Slavery was actually very expensive, and ended up being less profitable than factory labor in the North, as well as colonial labor provided by the Indian cotton trade.
Colonialism hasn’t changed much, because this is still the situation today – a small group of very powerful and well connected people stealing the world’s wealth and power. The only difference now is that they give a hug to some starving African child on camera, so that people will think that they are a good person.
So yes, there were horrible things that happened – and continue to happen in Africa, Asia and so on. We need to put a stop to these things. But it’s time to hold the people committing the crimes accountable. Not every person with a pasty complexion.
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Metalgaia said:
By the way, I decided to drastically overhaul and change that article I wrote because it certainly was not my best work.
Here is the new article:
I think I also took what some of the original Patheos author said out of context and realize that now.
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thelettuceman said:
I have noticed that Patheos tends to attract a singular type of blogger, and there are only a few bloggers whom I regularly think to check on. The editor of the portal, I believe, is at fault, since in her tenure I have seen a push towards a homogenization of belief, which fundamentally inconveniences polytheist bloggers; the majority of the recent evacuees are polytheists or polytheist-inclined. I think the reaction is a result of the non-Celto-Wiccan believers finally getting fed up with being *assumed* as something. Which I can appreciate, it gets burdensome to persistently define one’s belief as NOT something instead of AS something.
But I think the application of the term “privilege” in this sense is misapplied. It reeks of tumblr armchair sociological and cultural studies. “Preference” maybe. Privilege denotes a lot more cultural allowances than Wiccans get.
But, as I was chastised on The Wild Hunt, this isn’t “Wiccan” Privilege. This is “Wiccanate” Privilege. So Wiccans really are not privileged. Just what the practice or their modes of belief. Or something.
This is one debate I am not bothering with. “Debate”. Heh. I’m fighting against the wave of polytheist evacuation from Paganism, but some of this rhetoric just screams “pay attention to me”.
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Lucius Svartwulf Helsen said:
Yeah, I remember something about that Wiccan/Wiccanate issue. How it wasn’t Wiccans that were privileged, but the fact that everyone defaulted to a “wiccan style” or something like that.
Which really just made the whole thing even dumber.
And I’m not unsympathetic to being mislabeled in ones religion. If someone called me a Wiccan I’d probably be a bit…well actually I don’t know how I’d be. Dumbfounded, maybe. But still, those feelings (to me) don’t justify picking on other people. I’m a Scandinavian, I look like a Roman, does that mean I should get mad and take it out on Romans because someone things I look Roman…or Greco-Roman?
So I do not blame you for avoiding it. I was trying to as well, but like I said…it’s spreading.
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thelettuceman said:
I can get behind complaining about conventions that allocate more space and time for workshops from Wiccans than Theodish practitioners, or something, on the sheer face value of economics. I mean, it’s a lot harder to make what we do (either recons or recon-derivatives) have much mass appeal.
But let’s be honest. This is the Internet. This is the Pagan Internet. Character attacks have become intrinsically linked to it.
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ladyimbrium said:
“That doesn’t mean Wicca is privileged though. That’s like saying Fruit Loops is privileged over Raisin Bran because more people eat Fruit Loops. No, Fruit Loops has more sugar and tastes sweater than Raisin Bran so people like it better. Or are addicted to it, idk.”
It was at this point that I laughed loudly enough for the rest of the crew on the ambulance to look at me even more strangely than they normally do.
That said, I believe that a thanks are in order for writing this. Well done. I know that in the groups and events that I frequent in person, Wicca is the foundation upon which the events are all built. This is done because it does appeal to the majority of folks in the group. While I do appreciate what I know of the religion, I also appreciate that it’s not- in its entirety- for me. This conversation threatens to devolve into a screaming match between internet pity parties, but perhaps it’s for the best. It will settle out eventually. Perhaps folks from less-represented religions will take advantage (as you have) of the opportunity and start putting together quality, researched, spell-checked information to help alleviate the current dearth of same. I can hope.
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Nicholas Haney said:
Thank you for writing this.
It really echoes some of my own thoughts on the issue, which I have thus far hesitated to comment upon. Hot-button controversies just really aren’t my thing.
I think the point you have brought up is missed a lot in the “privilege” discussions; that being that Wiccans and related ilk have been at this as a whole longer than we have. They have worked to build infrastructure and gather resources, and it is paying off.
I think those of us in the Northern traditions need to focus our energies and efforts along the same lines. Worry less about what those outside our communities are doing and work to strengthen our own communities. Leave behind better resources, networks and those kinds of thing.
Thank you again!
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Nicholas Haney said:
Reblogged this on Nicholas Haney's Thought Forge.
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G. B. Marian said:
Excellent post, and I agree.
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betoquintas said:
I laughted. Try to explain to a teen that Wicca is a religion, that it has values and principles. I hear a thousand times: elitist! intolerant! You was gentle when you picture wiccans as the women of Charmed. I have seen supposed wiccans that looks more like someone who scaped from a Cosplay.
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Dawn Prough said:
I just found this post. I don’t want to cause a war, but I can’t allow your concept of privileged to stand without challenge. All “privilege” really means is that some people face a double standard or hardship based solely on a status that is defined by society, while others don’t face the same issues. Some people have privilege in one area, and are not privileged in others.
Your rape example is wrong as well. Social justice in that case would be that the woman could accuse the man, and he would face a fair trial that wouldn’t involve her sexual history, whether or not she had been drinking, whether they were in a relationship, or whether they had had sex before. Social justice would mean that if the man was convicted fairly, he would serve a sentence appropriate to the crime, unlike other young men whom I could name. It doesn’t mean he goes to jail automatically, because that isn’t just to him. But it also doesn’t mean that his accuser is put on trial, too.
Social justice literally means that everyone is treated the same, regardless of their gender, skin color, or socioeconomic status. That’s it. It really should be called “being fair” but it’s not because giving it another label makes it easier to mock and deny it’s necessary.
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Bunny Blossoms (@notherenow311) said:
You’re the one who seems butthurt. I can’t even bother to read this whole thing.
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