A Heathen's Path, About Me, black, gay marriage, Heathen, Hel, hispanic, homosexuality, News, obama, Pagan, pedophilia, polygamy, Rants, Religion, Rights
Alright, I still feel like crap from the eye infection, but I felt like musing a bit. So forgive me if some of this doesn’t really make sense. I’m still kind of out of it.
Also, I’m going to state here and now that I’m not affiliated with any heathen organizations and I’m not speaking for them when I say what I say below. Every heathen has their own views on this subject. I speak only for myself in this moment.
So the President has come out that he is pro-Gay Marriage. Not that big a surprise, I guess. He’s kinda let the Gay community down. A lot, from what I understand. Personally, I wonder where this support was when he had a lot of power going for him and could have done almost anything with it (instead he burned it all on his Universal Healthcare, which I think is about to crash and burn). Now that he’s coming in for a reelection, against Romney (who probably doesn’t have a chance) and Ron Paul (who polls show if given the nomination would crush Obama) suddenly he discovers he wants Gays to Marry!
I hate politics.
Anyways, addressing Gay marriage itself. I used to be against Gay marriage. Of course, I used to be against a lot of things, and for a lot of things, and I’ve changed my views on a lot of things.
And if anyone makes one of those stupid comments about how it’s good I’ve gotten enlightened, I’m going to kick your ass.
Personally, I don’t know why anyone would want to get married. Then again, I’m biased from my parent’s decade long divorce and fall out. But I think people have this fantasy idea of what marriage is that has nothing to do with reality, and have built it up into some glorious and wonderful thing that is no where close to the truth.
A 50% failure rate kinda proves my point. And I’m not going to get into the mess that is the legal system, which tends to favor women over men in this “age of equality.” So really, it’s a fucked up mess.
Now, everyone likes to tell me there’s benefits to being married. You get to be on each others health insurance, or make legal/medical choices, see family in the hospital, stuff like that. Which is all well and good. But I think if we tried, we could probably make those things happen without marriage, we just see marriage as the easiest way of doing these things.
And Gay people wanna have the various benefits of marriage. And I think they want to have this wonderful thing we’ve made marriage out to be. They’ve bought the illusion (Hel, Goddess of Death, I think they bloody well helped to make the illusion of what marriage is!). And I think that should they get it, they will quickly find out that marriage isn’t what they thought it is.
I’m really going to laugh if a few years after they get the right to marry, if Gays don’t have just as high a divorce rate as straight people. And who knows how many relationships will crash as soon as they get the right. There was a comedian I saw years ago who was talking about it and mentioned that there has to be a hell of a lot of gay people who don’t want to get married tell their partner “I’d love to get married to you, but we can’t cause it’s the law” to keep the relationship happy. Soon as gays can marry, well, there goes that excuse. Then you get hit with “you’re just afraid of commitment” and all the other bullying tactics us straight people face when it comes to getting married.
Of course, there’s that whole slippery slope argument. If marriage is between a man and a woman, and that’s it, it’s all free and clear. Hard line in stone. But you let gay people marry, well, you’ve opened up the door. If you’ll let straight people marry, and gay people marry, why not poly-amorous people? I actually wrote an essay on that subject (polygamy) and was fascinated to learn that (at least years ago) Gay people didn’t want polygamy to be legalized. I don’t know if this is still the case, but I found it interesting that they would want the right to marry for themselves, but balked at giving it to others. And it wasn’t just one guy/lots of women polygamy. It was all kinds, one woman/many men, many women/many men. This, despite the fact that polygamy is pretty much the same thing to the Bi-Sexual community as normal two person marriage is to the gay community. Maybe it has something to do with that trope about there being no bi-sexuals?
And if we open marriage up to Gays (which I’m cool with) and Polygamy (which I like), because we can’t say that marriage is only between two people if we can’t say that marriage is only between a man and woman, what happens next? Well, after that, the line can pretty much be moved anywhere.
I was watching a Law and Order SVU marathon, and there was one episode where a pedophile was arguing that adult/child love was normal and healthy. And while I’m not sure what the point SVU was really trying to make was, they had him talking about how yes, pedophilia is listed as a psychological disorder (and crime) that homosexuality was also listed the same way just a few years ago. Which is true. And many homosexuals like to point out that homosexuality was considered normal all the way back to Ancient Greece. Which is true. Of course, the same was true of pedophilia. And it does make me wonder sometimes, with an academic curiosity; How long before our society is made to accept pedophilia as normal too?
Look, I know a lot of states are throwing down ban on Gay marriage. Which, frankly is their right and people got a right to live as they want. That goes for gay people and straight people and those people who don’t think gays should get to marry. One groups rights don’t override another, or shouldn’t at least. But I do think there’s a fair chance we’re gonna get gay marriage, since we’ve already got it someplace. If the government is smart…oh, wait. Welll crap. Well, if the government were smart, it would but out of it and let states pick which they have. But one way or the other I suspect the government is going to try and legalize it. At some point. The fact that Obama is standing for it and probably alienating the entire Hispanic community and a large part of the Black community, and praying that as much as they are anti-gay, they’re more anti-republican (which if this keeps up, I’m not sure will stay that way).
I don’t know. I tend to think of marriage as a religious ceremony and only that. The act of marriage alone does not grant the couple the legal status of being married. The marriage license establishes legal authority of a marriage. So I am in support of civil unions for gays. They get all the legal perks by entering into a civil union. That’s all they should honestly care about. The only reason this is any sort of big deal is because of the legality issues surrounding gay marriage.
I believe in separation of church and state. With that said, if the Christian church wants to say marriage is only between a man and woman then I am ok with that. It’s their religion and their right to choose to take that moral stance.
Gays should not have an issue with the Christian Church’s stance. They should be fighting for legal equality.
Lucius Svartwulf said:
I get what you’re saying. That said, the Christian church doesn’t have a monopoly on the concept or practice of marriage. That’s something of a universal thing. We should also remember that marriage started as an economic thing, for combining the wealth of two families and producing heirs to carry on that wealth. The church (at least in Christianity) got involved because the Christian Church had to be involved in everything. They made marriage about the religious. Previous to that, the only part religion had to do with marriage was that people made their oaths before Gods and People. But religion wasn’t the singular focus of the marriage.
Yes, Gays should leave the church alone. And the Church should leave Gays alone. That said, I don’t really give a flip what the church wants, because I’m a Heathen and I’ll decide for myself what marriage is to me.
I understand what you are saying. I was using the Christian church as a mere example of a larger whole.
You somewhat made my point about marriage being the combing of wealth and for economic reasons. Which is why I support civil unions, because that’s what marriage really is in the eyes of the government.
Lucius Svartwulf said:
Ah, ok. Sorry, had like 3 hours sleep. lol.
Obama only came out for gay marriage because he’s trying to get reelected. Interesting that he didn’t come out for it far before now. Like when California was debating Prop 8 for instance. He’s a dunce. If he’s really for it, now wasn’t the time. 4 years ago was.
That said, I don’t care, personally, if gays marry. I don’t believe that it’s the state, the legalities or the paper that makes a marriage. I would like to see less govt. in marriage.
1. Hispanic is honestly insulting considering hispanic=spanish aka the conquerors of latin america so……
2. i’m really astonished that you actually legitimately say Gays. Seriously? Actually? its not a monolithic group buddy. and yes, i agree that more inclusive marriage (it is not strictly gay marriage, plenty of bisexual, pansexual, etc people get married to people of the same gender, not to mention all those of nonbinary genders) is not and should not be the highest priority of the lgbtqetc community. that does not mean anybody has the right to take that away from them, though. it’s a fucking basic human right and i don’t care if you think thats silly. imagine being told you couldn’t see the person you love while they are in the hospital dying? imagine your partner dying suddenly and because they didnt have time to make a will, everything you two had together, everything that reminds you of them, is taken away from you. that’s what this is about. it’s not the biggest thing, but it is nonetheless not something that should ever be taken away from somebody.
Lucius Svartwulf Helsen said:
Hey, thank you for reading the blog.
1) if the “hispanic” community calls itself hispanic, then hispanic is the term I use. While I am well aware of the history of Spain and its conquests of the North, Central, And South Americas, the “Hispanic” community uses that term to describe themselves. So, sorry to burst your bubble, but please don’t call me a racist for describing a people by the term they call themselves, however correctly or incorrectly. It would be just as racist, if not more so, to make up a name to describe them. 😛
2) Wow, really? I am so sorry I offended your sensibilities by referring to the Gay Community as Gay. Or is it that I used the term Gay? Really now, is there a problem you have with people referring to other people by those people’s publicly declared name? Or is it because I didn’t use the GLBTetc nomenclature? Because last I checked, both “male” and “female” homosexuals fell under the title of “gay” except when female homosexuals wanted to be different. As for the B/Bi-sexual group, I pointed out how they were being left out of this discussion since a part of their sexuality was being denied marriage either way. As for Transgenders…I haven’t heard word one about their marriage rights issues from anyone in the GLBT community. As for the ETC in all that, see above, second verse same as the first. Most of them are being ignored in favor of the GL community. 😛
Also, I think you’re reading a lot more into what I said than was actually said. In regards to the institution of marriage being silly, yes, I find it as such for all combinations because I’ve seen the harm and devastation that can follow when it goes bad at a 50%+ failure rate. So if you’re calling me out on thinking it silly for people to gamble half of their life’s work and savings on something that is more than likely not to fail, then clearly one of us has no problem betting everything in Vegas and I have no problem thinking risking your life’s work is a bad idea. I mention this since you brought up the whole losing everything because of a legal decision involving a partner.
Now, as for Marriage being a basic human right, I’m going to have to disagree with you on that. There are three basic human rights: Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. All organic beings have these rights. Marriage, however, is an economic union with occasional religious overtones. Marriage is a choice, of two or more people to combine their economic efforts in order to maintain and increase their wealth, while gaining access to the wealth and resources of others in a mutually beneficial relationship. Marriage is a promise and an oath.
Promises and Oaths, however, are not a basic civil right. They are a choice.
Now, do we have the civil right to have our Oaths recognized by the law? I believe we should. That the oath is made by two people of the same gender under the basis of marriage rather than say under the basis of a corporation, should not affect the legitimacy of that oath in the eyes of the law. This is why I support Gay Marriage.
However, there is no argument I am aware of that can put Marriage (for anyone) as a basic civil right, without there also being an argument that Freedom of Religion isn’t also a basic civil right. In which case, the rights of the religious who disagree with “Gay” Marriage (or as you would apparently have it GLBTECT Marriage) cannot be violated anymore than Gay people have a right to be married. Which, legitimately, is an issue a lot of Hispanic and Black people who are highly religious Christians have an issue with. They have the right to their religion, and their religion says “no gay marriage.”* To do so would then be to argue the superiority of the GLBT on either moral or humanitarian grounds in terms of what civil rights they should possess over the rights of others. Which would be discriminatory and possibly racist.
*Which is about the only kind of marriage it doesn’t allow, for some reason.
Now, the GLBT community can feel that their right to marry is superior than say the Christians and Muslims right for their religion to be respected by the laws of the land they live in. It’s not, just as the Christians’ and Muslims’ rights do not outweigh the rights of the GLBT community.
In short, thank you again for reading and commenting. Please do not insult me or others when I refer to people by their preferred term of address. Please do not attack someone who is defending the rights of others simply because you do no feel their methods or terms are as “socially correct” as your own. It comes across as elitist and discriminatory, especially when concerning a person belonging to one minority reaching out to aid another. Please, check your privilege at the door, and we can all be friends. 🙂
uh im mexican american soooooo
Lucius Svartwulf Helsen said:
A lovely culture worthy of respect. So?
so the whole hispanic thing is…………….related to me??? as in i do not want to be called hispanic?
Lucius Svartwulf Helsen said:
Fine, then I won’t call you hispanic. But as for the rest of the hispanic community, which calls itself the hispanic community…i’m calling them hispanic since that’s what they want. 😛
In turn, then, I would like you to refer to me as either a Norse American or a Scandinavian American, and henceforth not refer to me as White, because I find it a derogatory term that denies my cultural heritage and seeks equate my people with the sins of other peoples that we had no part in. 🙂