Heathen, Love, men's right, mgtow, mra, Pagan, relationships, Religion
“Would that those words were true, you could make a man happier than all.”
I once said this pretty much without thinking after a female coworker one said something about loving someone truly and deeply forever. I forget the complete words she said, but she gave me an odd look after I said my reply. I don’t know if the she thought I meant them personally or was just struck by what I had said, but either way it seemed a bit beyond her experience or normal.
To me, Love is a Promise. Being raised too much with the ideals of Mr. Rodgers I hold that everyone is deserving of love until such time as they prove themselves as unworthy. I, it seems, hold to an innocent until proven guilty mentality when it comes to people, where as it seems that even when it comes to love, guilty until proven innocent is now the norm. WE might all be special people deserving of respect…but you have to earn your respect before it is given. It seems an odd and overly hostile idea to me. Often those I meet who insist I earn their respect before they treat me with respect find themselves no with me earning their respect, but with my fangs at their throats for coming at me with violence.
It is not lost on me the irony that a Heathen has mastered the art of loving his neighbor better than most Christians have.
Some of you might have heard of MGTOW, or men going their own way. It’s a growing phenomenon which I almost find myself on the edges of several times. Men who look at the dating and relationship game and realize (or at least believe) it to be a zero sum game in which they have more odds of losing everything than they do of gaining anything or even breaking even. So they don’t play. Largo from Megatokyo once said it best to a girl who was making the relationship game impossible: “Your game, your rules, but I don’t have to play.”
I’ve played that game. I gave my love, my promise, without reservation. I went to war over it, did battles few can grasp, fewer would believe, and none would likely believe I could have walked away from. Only to have my promise thrown away, love not returned, but deemed something else, fleeting and passing for one who was much more deserving, one who “had their back’ even though only over the course of a few months as opposed to the years I had given. I watched as someone who I had held through the darkest parts of their life turn and walk away when I faced mine.
Needless to say, I have not been one for fully committing to the game. Life has not been an act of living, or even an act of dying that might befit the heir to Hela most high. It has been an act of unliving, of wondering if today is the day I commit myself to death because I have nothing left to live for. I lived my dream, I had the love of my life, a home that was all my own, earned by our own hands with no help from any other. Things were far from perfect, but I was…I thought we were trying to make them better. Then the accursed oath-breaker destroyed everything and I was cast away. I lost my love, my home, my dream, but I still stood on my own two feet, barely, and carried on. Then I learned of his full treachery and went to war, I laid low my foe, gathered wizards of all kinds and wrought such retribution and devastation upon that false speaker that even now his life falls further and further unto desolation. I took up my lost love from the ashes and stood her up even though I had every reason and right to let her burn. I nursed her back to health, and I thought was gifted her love and her gift, her promise. But then through a brother’s foolishness, I did have to fight things beyond what even Gods would fight, and though I fought bravely…I fought alone. I was wounded, part of me died.
And with it, hope. A Brother turned, taking a goddess with him and together from me they took that promise. I faced ruin and desolation in a way worse than what even the oath breaker had wrought, though Hel stood by my side resolute and unyielding. I was her Son, her heir, her blade and most loved. But the damage done, some wounds can heal, but when the person you love most in the world tells you they don’t find you attractive because you need comfort in the depths of pain, wounding, and depression so great you fear the knife’s edge in your own hand…there are somethings not even Gods’ can do.
Five years. A continually escalating series of battles that finally left me broken. And the person you had done it all for walks away like they never loved you in the first place. A mountain of fallen foes and victories worthless in the face of one loss. Some might call me a coward, a pussy, for no leaping back into the game, but then I would say they are fools. Do we consider the crippled soldier weak for no throwing himself back into the battle when he cannot even walk? Is the man who sees that happen really such a coward for not wanting to have it happen to him? I don’t think so.
I’m nearly thirty, I have seen much, lost much, and where I am in life I doubt I could ever truly earn my way to the princesses who look upon even the act of going to eat as a challenge to prove oneself worthy of their love. After all, if challenging the very foundations of existence is not enough to make one worthy of being loved….what hope a mortal man who through sickness and economy cannot even have his own place without help from another? I had my dream, my life, and I lost it, and worse yet I see little to no hope of building another one.
My story is perhaps more mystical than that of most men, but the story is much the same a lot of places. Men of my generation are getting into college less than women, we’re graduating less than women, we look at a divorce rate of nearly sixty percent where nearly two thirds of all divorces are started by women who then get custody of any children and alimony payments that can reach such catastrophic levels that men go to jail for being unable to pay them. The rules for women have changed, but if anything the rules for men have gotten set in stone. A man must pay for dinner, especially on the first date, even if the woman earns twice as much as him. And it should be to the level of her comfort, not to the level of practicality or even affordability. Men are still told we must be alpha dog dominant…but never tell her what to do and that even being two aggressive will get you labeled a creeper or even a rapist. We look at a future without the high paying jobs of our parents or our college dreams, but find nothing but girls who expect us to have those high paying jobs while still allowing them to not just compete, but easily succeed in those fields with us. We have to make the first moves, but if they are unwanted we no longer just face rejection, we face harassment and other criminal charges.
Is it any wonder that some men do not want to play that game? To walk just not the narrow path of success, but a razor’s edge that cuts your feet and promises almost certain failure? Only a fool would play that game. And only a fool would accept it gladly.
“I’m a human being, dammit!” my heart screams, “Don’t I deserve someone to love me for who I am?”
But my heart’s scream echos only in silence.
A man and his girlfriend are in bed one night when they start getting hot and heavy. Things are going well, but right as they are about to have sex, she turns away and stops their fun. In an uncomfortable place, the man asks why. “I don’t think you’re in touch with my emotional needs as a woman for me to be in touch with your sexual needs as a man. Can’t you just love me for me and not what I do for you?”
Suitably chastised, the man admits she has a fair point and goes to bed. The next day he calls into work and takes her out shopping. Any store she wants, and she goes crazy. Anything she wants, and she’s in a near orgasmic frenzy as she finds item after item. Finally, after hours she is ready to check out out, but he holds up his hand. “I want you to just stand there and hold those for a moment,” he says. “Why?” She asks, confused and a bit of the high fading. “Well, frankly I don’t feel like you’re in touch with my financial needs as a man for me to fund your purchasing needs as a woman. Can’t you just love me for me and not what I buy for you?”
He spent the night on the couch. This was viewed as a moral victory by many, but ultimately moral victories do not win wars. If anything, moral victories show how unfair the game has become.
“Buy my love,” cries the princess. “Buy it with gold and blood and countless dead! And maybe I shall love you for a time, until a bigger, better, bloodier, richer man comes along! Fight, fight to the death and beyond each day so that I will love you, but know my love is not a promise, it is a fleeting favor given only to the one who pleases me most in the moment!”
What do I gain by fighting for such love? Is it any wonder that so many men walk away, having been cast aside by unwindable conditions? Men are warriors, we think in tactics, resources, and rewards. What is the best use of my power, my wealth? Is it to get a job that gives me a few of the things I want in terms of freedom, fun, and money with less effort, or to burn my life on 70 hour weeks like my father, only to watch as everything I have is taken away and I am made a slave? Bros before Hoes might be seen as misogynistic by some and even denounced as gay, but it has become much the only answer for some in the zero sum game. A lifetime of brothers beside you, or a lifetime turning brothers into enemies for the sake of a woman’s apparently fleeting love, all for the sake that some women might truly love you, but at the apparent cost of everything? It was one thing to watch fathers be stripped of their families, but when a young man can see his father divorced and stripped, and his grandfathers divorced and stripped, it becomes harder to believe in the dream of a family, and more reasonable to look at the ancient idea of the war band, bothers in arms who support each other in life.
The risk of slavery for the potential of a happy family, or the safety of the shield-wall. What game does man have the best chance of finding by his own merits as either hero or serf?
Well, even Hades had to kidnap Persephone to find love…
Silver Wolf said:
This almost hurts me.
We have had a conversation that touched on this a bit. This particular post though. It paints all women as being the same. Personally, I am not, nor have I ever associated with any women that are like this.
I can’t tell you how many times I have spent a lot on a man only to be turned away for another woman. I was involved with this guy for a month. I got almost nothing out of this relationship. I gave him money for gas, beer, cigarettes, weed. He didn’t spend a dime on me nor repaid me what I had given him. Of course I didn’t ask him to either. We had sex quite often and frankly, only one time was I able to actually finish and that was because I was on top and we didn’t stop when he finished. I stuck around though. He made me laugh, was affectionate with me. Then I was ditched for a woman that would publically emasculate him. Calling him gay on Facebook, etc. Honestly, I’ve only ever dated one man that actually bought me stuff and it was little things. Those little things meant the world to me even though I fought him spending money on me in the first place.
The whole “the man has to pay when you go out” thing is BS to me. If I ask someone to go out and do something that involves spending money, it is with the assumption that I am going to pay. Now if he asks, then he pays.
All I ever hear is men bitch about women who only want a guy that will spend money on her. Maybe because you aren’t looking at the right women.
Society teaches girls that “if they are pretty and skinny they can act and treat everyone however they please and men will still buy them stuff”. Not all “traditionally pretty” girls are shallow and just want money either, but that is what you will typically find. Problem is, you also can’t help who you are attracted to.
Some men don’t know what they want. They say they want a girl that can take care of herself, yet are intimidated by a successful woman (again, some men). They say all they want is a sweet girl, but dump the sweet girl that would do anything for him, for a bitch that only wants him to do things for her.
I don’t place myself on a pedestal and ask for men to prove themselves worthy of me. I’m on the ground, wanting an equal partner. I don’t think it was your intention to paint all women in the same light, but it came off that way to at least me.
Lucius Svartwulf Helsen said:
well, the point wasn’t really to pain all women in the same narcissistic light. Not all women are like that. But what it is though, is the perspective of me and I suppose many looking at the numbers we can see, if you will.
Take marriage, 60% end in divorce but 40% do not, so not all marriages end badly. Still, in a cold calculation of odds it does lean slightly to the negative outcome. I have a friend who is happily married. Statistically, that means i’m fucked.
If a man asks out 10 girls, and is rejected by 4 of them flat out, 6 girls still said yes. But if out of those 6 girls, 4 are of the princess type, one wrong step, failure to make the date or relationship worthy enough, and he is out. Let us say the last 2 girls are like you, who care not for funds, but for the individual, this is good. Not all women are self centered, and those 2 girls are worth everything in the world.
but you’re still looking at a 1/5 chance of success for a decent person. Would you risk everything, thousands of dollars, your legal freedom, health both physical and psychological, your children, on a 1/5 chance of winning? Russian roulette has a 5/6 chance of winning, but most people wouldn’t take that kind of bet.
men, as i said, are tactical creatures. that 1 girl might make his life amazing…but four others are likely to either ignore him or use him and his life could end up hell.
and yes, some men are “intimidated” by successful women. Many of those same men, however, had been taught by society and experience that if the woman is more successful than him, she will start to value him less and will seek a more powerful mate. Why go to war to lose? as you say, it is a bs game.
i think you are right in that men do not know what they want. but women do not know what they want. or both are hypocrites like most people are and say one thing when they truly desire the other.
My intention is not to paint women in a bad light. They are being what they were taught to be, often enough, for good or ill. your words speak that you are one of the good ones and that is worthy of love and respect. The problem is in the game. The rules get worse, the goals become more impossible, and the payout to faint. I believed I had a woman like you, who cared not for the financial and the powerful, but for the man I was…in the end after five years it turned out she wasn’t. I would love to have someone to love me as you say you love. It would mean everything in the nine worlds to have that kind of promise. But what are the odds of finding such a rare thing as that in this world, and what would be the cost of eventually finding it?
Silver Wolf said:
Maybe the reason why I feel this way is nothing was ever just given to me. I had to earn everything, even as a child I had to earn the new clothes I got before the new school year. I had to earn the privilege to watch TV or go and play with the kids down the street. If I wanted to try to stay up past my assigned bed time I would have to go above and beyond my usual chores. From the very first moment I got my first job I had to pay for everything for myself.
Another reason is probably because I never had that “perfect” father figure. If I’m honest with myself, I have severe “daddy issues”. My biological father I only got to see for a week once a year if I was lucky and he was a borderline woman hater. I say was because he is getting better, and I would hope so considering he has three daughters. The man that actually raised me, my first step father, was addicted to meth and gambling and was physically abusive. So I don’t really have that image to compare men to as the perfect mate. I had to make one up for myself, and despite the pain I went through as a child, I’m better for it. Unfortunately, this has not helped me at all the world of romance. I’m kind of the perpetual single girl that everyone is always trying to hook up with someone.
In real life I’m actually pretty shy but yet somehow intimidating. The intimidating part is something I’ve been told by several people. Personally, I don’t see it. This brings about the conundrum of the type of men that I tend to attract. Most of the guys that I’ve attracted want a yes woman. That is certainly not me. I’m not confrontational but I am way too opinionated to be a yes woman. On the flip side, I definitely don’t want a yes man. I don’t know how many times I’ve said this, but I want an equal. I love debates. As long as no one ends up taking it too seriously, they are a lot of fun and if done right you can learn from it too.
I know your intention wasn’t to paint women the same. Maybe I have such issues with this particular subject because I really don’t understand the mind set of these women. I don’t get how they can think that way about another person. I only ask for what I can give in return. I’m not rich, so I’m not asking for a possible mate to be. I certainly don’t have the perfect body, so I don’t ask a possible mate to have one. I pay my own bills, have a job, have my own car, have at least enough intelligence (I hope anyway) to have an intellectual conversation, have a good sense of humor (though some think it’s a little twisted), and know when to have fun and when to be serious. These are the things I ask for. I’m willing to put my all into a relationship. A relationship is always a risk. There is a possibility of getting hurt and sometimes losing so much more. All I can say is try to find someone that will only ask you to put your heart on the line and nothing more. Problem with that is, people tend to put on a mask to get what they want, not showing who they truly are until they get too comfortable. Ugh. It really is difficult. At the moment, because of the last heart break I had, I’m completely blocked off romantically. Hopefully that will change, but only the Norns know how long that will take. Hopefully it won’t take so long that a good man ends up getting passed in the process. Only time will tell.
Those percentages just make me think one thing:
May the odds be ever in your favor.
Lucius Svartwulf Helsen said:
honestly, so much of what you say is similar to my experience or view. i think the differences come from which side of the fence we were born on. i see these problems as a man, you see them as a woman. we see the same problem, same behavior, but it affects us differently in minor ways.
which is probably why we’re both heathens. we’ve got the same attitudes as to what peoples should be like. lol.
Magikos Musings said:
I agree on the sentiment behind this. My husband of 10 years just up and left me for a whore, and it was a smack in the face, bubble bursting moment. Love is a horrible weapon that others use against you. Once you have had your heart ripped out and you find unable to trust in the lie that is romance and life sucks. Romantic Love is a destructive evil….Trojan war great example there. I will love my family, friends and pets, but romantic love …. never again. I rather take a bullet to the brain then get married a second time.
Never fight for someone that wouldn’t fight for you. I cannot stress this enough. During all the times that you were trying to gain the love and attention of the “princesses”, what were they doing to gain your love and attention?
I don’t want a man that will buy me everything. I have my own money.
I don’t want a man that will devote all of his attention to me. I need alone time.
I don’t want a man that will agree with everything I say. I make mistakes.
I need a partner. I need someone that will fight with me, back to back, so that we’re holding one another up. I need someone who will listen to my secrets and share some of their own so that I don’t feel so alone. I need someone who will listen to me explain my hair-brained theories, then patiently explain to me why I’m wrong and why their own, crazier theory is right so that we can spend hours talking about everything from the gods to the mating habits of starfish. I want a man who wants me to be part of their life, not the whole of it.
I will never get any of these things chasing after “princes”. It’s a funny thing about royalty, but whenever someone grows up being given everything and being told how perfect and beautiful they are, they decide that they don’t need anyone else. They only love themselves, and they see everyone else as being beneath them, fit only to provide the next distraction or carry their burdens. Tragically, they never suffered any real problems in life, so they never developed any real character.
Do not be ashamed of your imperfections. Do not worry or stress or fret about your low station in life, or how bad things look with money, jobs, or your housing. Keep fighting. Be strong…because one day, someone else that’s strong is going to view all these obstacles as a wall of thorns around your castle. When they finally make it inside, let them find a person who hasn’t laid down and died, waiting to be saved, but is continuing to fight that dragon. Then, let them help.
Real love isn’t about giving another person everything or putting them up on a pedestal to be worshiped. Real love is like standing side by side in a battle, you two against the world and its dragons.
So don’t give up.