In the time it has taken Nickerson to write his articles, and for I and others to respond, the push to bring the pedo rights movement forward has already begun. Though soft, the cries of “pedophobe” and “anti-pedo bigot” have already started to sound.
Many think it unthinkable that pedophiles might one day gain equal rights, and have the right to be with those they desire. The Idea is too alien, to abhorrent to consider. The sexulization of a child, and the use of said child in sexual practices, horrifies the vast majority of people in the USA. But just as it was once unthinkable that gay people could get married, or people of different races could get married, or even that man might walk on the moon, so too now must we consider the unthinkable.
There are many arguments that will be coming. What follows are those I can think of, and some that I found.
- “Well, you’re just a bigot/pedophobe.”This one is famous from the gay community. People have come to associate Bigots with racism and equally bad things. The “-phobe” thing has had great success mainly because it’s often paired with “well, you’re just scared you’ll like it too.”
I’m going to address the bigot thing first. And you actually thank the book Go Set a Watchman for this, as it actually made me look up the term bigot. Now, if you go look up the term Bigot it is defined as “someone who hates another group.” This has been the definition largely since the 60’s or a bit before. However, in doing research on the background of the word it used to mean something more like “Dogmatist.” I.e. a person inflexible about what they believed was right.
Frankly, when you look at it that way, being a bigot doesn’t sound so bad, especially in regard to something like pedophilia. Frankly, if a pedo called me a bigot, I would thank him for recognizing my resolute stance by my morals in regards to his child fuckery. But then again, I’ve been on the periferey of movements like GamerGate and I’ve been a Heathen for over a decade. Being called things like “racist, misogynist, hater, bigot, etc” really don’t have much affect on me anymore. But other people are going to have to toughen their skin up if they want to prevent the acceptance of pedophilia. You will be called the bad guy here, you’re going to have to accept that and either ignore it, or embrace it.
As for “pedophobe’ being an insult, and it being used like homophobe to basically say “well, you’re just jealous and you want to do it too” there’s really only one defense. Ignore it. It’s an ad homenim attack because they really can’t fault your argument, so they have to attack you as a person. The truth is though, there is no “irrationality” to the fear of pedophiles, their harm wrought against children is well documented. Stick with your facts and science. It won’t always be a win, but it’s better than trying to argue you’re not a “bad person because you don’t like pedos.”
2. “At what age is it pedophilia?”
According to Wikipedia (admittedly, not the best source) pedophilia is defined as the attraction of adults towards prepubescent children, i.e. 11 or younger. It stipulates there has to be at least a five year age gap between the attractor and the attractee, and that to be considered a pedo a person has to be at least 16 years of age.
On my end, I’d put the age of attraction up to 12 or 13, but I can see why they went with 11. Frankly, I can’t find much fault with the five year age gap, I might raise it to six, but we are working mainly with arbitrary numbers, which really just expand as a person gets older. So for now, we’ll work with this.
One argument that may come up is the whole Age of Consent thing, and how we often treat adults attracted to teens as pedophiles as well. There are in fact three “philia” which often get lumped in together as pedophilia.
pedophilia, attraction to children 11 and under. Hebephlia, attraction to the 11-14 range. and ephebophilia, the 15-19 range.
The basic fact is, nearly every adult is going to experience some level of ephebophilia. There’s an evolutionary reason for that. Quite a few, actually. Life expectancy has often been half of what it is today, and a 15-19 year old human is typically old enough to procreate the species, young enough to handle the physical strains, and in both males and females, at their most “Active” in terms of ability. Naturally, this just kinda got hardwired into the species as “time to go.”
Now, as life expectancy and modern science have increased lifespan and ease of pregnancy, our median age switched from mid to late teens to more mid to late twenties. We then threw up a bunch of age of consent laws regarding anyone younger than 18. And thus society has viewed attraction to the ephebophilia range as almost as dirty and perverted as honest to goodness pedophilia. If for different sociological reasons.
Pedophiles will use this attraction and view to their advantage. “Well, you’re just as dirty and perverted for wanting underaged kids as I am!” they will no doubt cry. Many people will fall to that argument. The blanket statement of “underaged children” covering anyone 18 and under means that pedos can sound reasonable as they push for changes in the “age of consent” laws. The way such an argument would go would inevitably lead to the age of consent dropping lower and lower until at last children could “consent.”
To me, the best way to deal with this would be to adjust the present age of consent laws. Frankly, having been a teen, I figure if you’re old enough to drive a car, you should be old enough to choose who you fuck. That’s just my opinion, but there you have it. Kinda like how you can drink beer at 18 if you’re in the military, the logic being “if you can die for your country, you can at least drink for yourself.” Given that the view of ephebophilia as wrong is a more modern societal construct that goes against evolutionary biology, I see no reason why this cannot be adjusted…and in doing so, rob pedos of a quick win argument. Because despite being lumped together, ephobophilia and pedophilia are two radically different things both in terms of evolution, and in the ability of the younger party to consent.
As for hebephilia, this too is seperate from pedophilia, however, given the state of the physical form and the dangers presented physically and psychologically, I see no reason why that too should not remain off limits. 90+% of all cultures I know of have treated that age range as “too young.” But more on that later.
In short, we need to keep the argument of pedophilia focused on what it scientifically is. 11 years or younger, 13 at worst. At that point, going through all history and science, it is both tradition and proven that a person that young cannot grasp the nature or consequences of such actions, as well as the fact that science shows them to be near universally harmful. The tighter the definition, the harder it will be for pedos to argue that things like ephobophlia means society is just being a bunch of arbitrary and bigoted assholes.
3. Age of consent laws and their damages
This one relates to point 2 a lot. Society put the “age of consent” at 18 years of age. This number seems largely arbitrary to me, but there are a few reasons why it does make a bit of sense. 18 is the age when you can legally enter a contract on your own. 18 is the age when you are allowed to vote. 18 is the age you are considered an “adult” having graduated from school and so forth. There’s arguments about maturity levels, but I don’t really give much credit to those given that there’s 26 year old college students who ban speakers because they feel fear over what might be said. So completely disregarding maturity levels, that’s mainly why it seems to be 18 in the USA. Other countries have it as low as 16, and in the USA we have allow people to start driving and working at 16, so really, logically arguments could be made to lower it a bit.
The problem comes from the fact that most “age of consent laws” are driven as “hard lines.” Sure, there has been some work to soften them, but the truth is many a young person’s life has been ruined because they were just a few days over or under a legal limit. Many young men are now life long sex offenders because they dated too young by mere days or weeks. I’ve heard of at least one young man who is being tried and punished as an adult for possessing what was legally called “child porn’ because it was of an under aged person…namely, himself. That’s right, a 17 year old is going to be a sex offender for the rest of his life and thrown in gen pop prison because he took a nude selfie.
And frankly, that’s bullshit. And his isn’t the only case, I’ve heard of both young men and women who have been charged with possession of child porn because they possessed nudes of themselves or their significant others, all while themselves being under the “age of consent.” Their following punishments and registration as sex offenders goes on to ruin their lives forever. And that’s not even counting if there is actual sex involved across the “date line.”
Pedos are going to look at all that damage and basically pull a Helen Lovejoy.
And frankly, once you start looking at the numbers….yeah. That’s going to be a hard argument to put down. What were initially good intentions created draconian laws which have more often hurt those they were trying to help than actually succeed in protecting them. Given how Nickerson was all about “protecting the little ones we love,” you can damn well believe that such a cry will rise up with the full passion of their pedophilic hearts.
Again, perhaps the best way to deal with such a thing is to drop the age of consent to 16 and then work to set the laws so that the kids don’t get punished, even if adults who cross the line do. Because this is the new, modern, and sexually open age with smartphones. Trying to stop kids from taking nude photos is gonna be like trying to prevent cockroaches from breeding: impossible. And trying to figure out how old some teenager is in a photograph online and when that picture was taken is going to be nearly impossible in the years to come, even if it isn’t already. But you can always tell when someone is younger than 13 and by all means, burn the child porn owning piece of shit.
But the way things stand, tactically, the pedos have too easy a victory when it comes to these things.
4. We let children who know nothing explore their sexuality, wouldn’t it be better if we allow an adult to guide them?
Yeah, I went there. I went there because you know they will go there. In fact, I’m pretty sure I went there because I saw them go their at least once.
The truth is, we can have all the sex ed classes we want, we can teach kids everything we can, and they will still fuck up fucking. It’s gonna happen. That’s life. In fact, I suspect sex works that way intentionally just so the species can continue. The Gods of Sex are often capricious, no matter what culture.
This is where the distinction of the three categories is going to be very, very important.
In terms of Ephbophilia, the 15-19 age group, they’re practically adults anyways, traditionally speaking. Returning to this ancient ideal blows a whole in that argument because we can say “they are not children, they are adults, and have the right to do as they please.”
Sure, they might be adults who know jack shit, but that’s never really stopped us adults doing things anyways, or been an argument for us stopping other adults doing stuff they don’t know about. The Jackass movie series is a perfect example of this fact. Besides, they would be adults capable of going online legally, or to libraries, or seminars, where they might learn what they do not know, just like the rest of us adults do, rather than bumble around illegally and get themselves listed as sex offenders or physically hurt.
And sure, that might means something like a guy in his thirties might hook up with a 16 year old woman, but that’s not pedophilia and if he does anything bad, we have rape laws already in effect to punish him for crossing non-consensual lines. Same for an older woman and a younger man, though those anti-rape laws might need to be strengthened a bit. Yes, it seems odd by today’s standards, but they would be adults, and nearly every European, Middle Eastern, African, Asian, and Native American culture considered 16 year old people to be fully adult, dating nearly to the dawn of civilization. It still is the rule in many places in the world today, even in modern countries.
In regards to hebephilia, well, they’re just starting puberty. Public sex ed classes are perfectly fine for the level of knowledge they’d need to maintain their physical health, and hey, in just a few short years they would be adults and could go learn with their fellow adults. So why on earth would they need help from pedos to “safely learn sexuality.” No need to jump any guns. So again, in my mind at least, headshot to that argument.
Which brings us to actual pedophilia 13/11 years and younger. They have not had puberty. They are incapable of sexual activity. They have no need of such knowledge or training by an adult. So the argument falls flat. There would be no need for such training, because by the time such training would be needed, they would be adults capable of seeking that training on their own (and no longer within the age of pedophilic attractions).
So those are my four starter points for opposition. I’ve found some others from another website, and I’ll go over them in the next post. But for the tl:dr version, here we go.
- names have only the power we give them. If you’re a bigot because you stand by your morality, take pride in that.
- There are three age ranges, pedophilia is 11 and younger, hebophilia is 12-14, ephebophilia is 15-19. Keep focus on pedo because that is the one involving children, and ephebo have generally been considered adults by humanity already.
- We do need to adjust our age of consent laws and how they work, but these are easy fixes and do not affect actual pedophilia in anyway, because they would only apply to ephobo and not pedo age groups.
- pedophlia is 11 and younger. They are incapable of sex, and have no need for sexual training. hebo can be taught just fine with public sex ed classes for health, reasonably ephobo should be reclassed as adults capable of consent who can then educate themselves, and the 15-19 age range is not pedo anyways.
Leave your thoughts or other arguments you can come up with below. I look forwards to them and hopefully we can start coming up with good counter arguments now before the pedophilia rights movement can really get underway and have much traction.
Silver Wolf said:
Honestly I wouldn’t give a single fuck about being called a bigot by a pedo. I was a victim myself, having been molested multiple times and finally raped when I was all of 8 years old by a 19 year old cousin, and I refuse to ever let it be ok for another child to go through that. Ever. If one called me a bigot I’d probably laugh right in their face.
Now age of consent laws aren’t as hard and fast as you might think. They actually very from state to state. The age of consent for Missouri is actually 17 and in a lot of states it actually is 16.
As far as the “sex offenders”, yea that stuff definitely needs a lot of work. Someone could be labeled as a sex offender if they got drunk and stupid one night and ended up peeing in an alley or mooning a friend and got caught doing so.
When it comes to any laws involving sex it is a really blurry area that really does need to be looked at more. If I remember correctly there are still states (about 12 I believe) where sodomy is still illegal. Now how you enforce that I don’t know but it is still there.
I was going to mention the variance in age of consent but Silver Wolf beat me to it. I agree with most of your points; I live in Belgium where consent is 16 years old. We hardly have an issue with teens dating much older men or women (at least from what I see when walking about town) and generally it seems to protect those in need of protection.