So Halstead wrote an entire post about not feeding the troll, while managing to both feed the trolls, make a good case for trolls, and maybe even be a bit of a troll himself. All well and good, man’s free to do as he pleases. And so are the people in his comments, using the World Table, and I wanna look at some of their responses to his post.
Now I know it’s traditional to black out the names or something like that. But since World Table is all about accountability in commenting and being open about who is saying what…I see no reason why they cannot be presented here as well. After all, if they wish to speak openly, I shall not deny them that right. I shall respect their choices.
I have, to the best of my knowledge, contained myself to the rules of debate and committed no logical fallacies. Despite about twenty posts and hundreds of comments, I cannot recall having seen one prove where I have done failed this. If I had, I would have reviewed the argument and posted a retraction of that point until such time as I could present a sound argument. And the one time it was proven I made a mistake, in regards to the Three Pillars, I posted that I had made a mistake and then explained why.
I am never, never going to stop laughing at people insisting that using a dictionary in a debate/discussion is BS and shouldn’t be done.
I mean really, if using the facts is bs, and a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept, then for what was the dictionary created for? I was always taught that the dictionary was for this very reason, to show the meaning of words (as well as how they were correctly spelled) so that people could use their words correctly and to show if someone was using words incorrectly. By this logic, what need have we for scientific or historical data and facts with which to make arguments. We might as well just say whatever we want and never have to prove our points are true.
Also, I didn’t drag his kids into the argument. Halstead brought them up to prove why he should continue to “discuss” how polytheists were “separating themselves” from Paganism. At which point they entered the debate and their position could be judged just as Halstead’s was being judged.
And I respected their game, as people say.
Now this one was interesting. By their view I’m not so much a troll as I am an abusive zealot. On the flip side, apparently I’m in a bad “headspace” (not sure what that is atm) who goes after Halstead because it’s easier than going after pedoes.
In which case, they’re wrong. It’ really easy to go after pedoes. I mean, the only argument I have to make against pedophiles is “fucking children is wrong because they cannot consent.” Nice, easy. Sure, the subject is gross, but hey, sometimes someone has to do the dirty job. Halstead’s actually harder to debate because I actually have to do a bit of research and prepare a larger, more thought out argument for my position.
Also, is it just me or doesn’t seem that this commenters is implying that arguing against pedophilia is bad? And this is not me being sarcastic, this me actually having issues with understanding someone.
Heh, don’t give yourself so much credit Halstead. I’d already wrapped up the pedo series at that point. You’re not more important than fighting pedophilia. I’m sure it says something interesting about your headspace that you think you would be in my eyes, but preventing child rape is more important to Hel and I than any of your weaksauce “blasphemies.”
I didn’t bring Halstead’s kids into it. Halstead brought his kids into it. I merely called them what I call myself, so I didn’t insult them. Now, if you find it insulting that they might be something you view as “bad” I think that’s something the person in question needs to look at in themselves. Being judgmental is generally not good for one’s health. It’s really stressful.
Halstead hasn’t needled me theologically. I’m sure not everyone will see it that way, but I can’t help how people view the world. And I (again) did not insult Halstead’s children. I’m really not sure where this “meme” has appeared from, but frankly people, it ain’t true. If anything, I respect Halstead’s kids.
I also love how someone can in one breath say “of course Halstead feels insulted by x” and then in the same breath go “i can’t understand how all these people were insulted by y.”
But Joseph, at least you tried man. At least you tried. In fact, you try really well. Thanks man. I shall share your battle so all may see the tale.
To be honest, I honestly didn’t think calling his kids trolls was going to be that big a deal. As Joseph points out, my words were words of admiration of their skill. I mean, sure, maybe I should have known that a “trollphobic” person like Halstead would get pissed, but hey, I’d just wrapped up a series against pedophilia and needed booze, my a game was a little a-.
But hey, if his kids ever see this…well done. You had my respect that day. May you always be honorable and victorious in your endeavors.
Also, I’m not sure that last bit is full “ad hom” but really, Halstead trying to claim Joseph can’t hold his position because he “doesn’t have kids” is bull.
But hey, what do I know?
So I’m going to wrap this up with one last one.
You know what really shuts a troll’s mouth? Finding out (usually) his real name, where (usually) he lives, where (usually) he works, and so on. The potential for actual consequences – such as receiving a summons to appear in civil (or even criminal) court – goes a long way to shutting their mouths. #TrueStory
Do I need to start considering it a good think I can technically open carry swords in my state now? Do I need to see about getting some personal protection, because frankly, this sounds kinda threatening. “You disagreed with me, so now i’m going to find out all your personal info, where you work, and threaten you with civil and/or criminal legal actions as well as potentially harass your workplace because you don’t agree with me!”
The grand irony is of course that I have everything documented on this blog and if I did have to go to court I’m pretty sure I would win any legal actions. Hel, Halstead can’t claim I harassed him because I haven’t even really talked to him. I barely have replied to a few of his comments on other blogs, haven’t emailed him, haven’t been following him around anywhere. Everything I’ve done has been on my blog and purely a case of debate. Which it has been legally established elsewhere is perfectly legal. I haven’t even threatened him personally. The closest I came, I believe, is saying I understood why some people want to punch him in the face.
But let’s look at this logically for a moment. I disagree with Halstead’s position. I have made clear I disagree with his position and why. And the apparent appropriate response is to dox me and harass me legally? To potentially try and get me fired from my job, and other potential actions? At least in this man’s view it is.
Now here’s the thing, if that were to happen…okay. I will defend my actions in a court of law if I have to. For my Goddess, my Pantheons, for my beliefs, I am willing to suffer anything. Hel’s love for me, and mind for her, is beyond measure. For her, for my faith, for my people, I would die, I would kill, I would live in peace, and I would live in war. If Halstead, or anyone, was so pissed by my dissent from their beliefs that they felt the need to come after me, personally or legally, this would not stop me from standing by my position, defending it rationally and with facts as well as faith, up until my death if need be. So doxing me, prosecuting me, it wouldn’t stop me. Because this is not about harassment, or taking down Halstead, or anything involving his kids (way to use your children like a shield there, buddy). It’s about a theological debate.
Because I, when you get down to it, am a Paladin as much as I am a “troll.” I will do all I can for my Goddess and what she tells me is right and good. “Deus Vult” as the saying used to be. Hela Vult, might be the more correct way of saying it. And maybe that means I’m not a troll. Maybe that means I’m more of an orc, or a human, or something like that. Because I will stand for what I believe, regardless of what I face in terms of foes set against me.
But for anyone who might think about doing that whole doxing and legal action thing, think of this. Remember the massive response when Halstead called me a sad little man with sad little gods. Then think about what kind of response you would get if word got out that you had doxed and legally harassed a polytheist simply because he or she disagreed with Halstead.
Insults are one thing. Physical and legal attacks are another.
At that point, it would become not a debate, but a war.
And I would encourage everyone on both sides in that case to ask themselves this question: “Would I die for what I believe in?”
I know my answer.
So how about we keep this civil and behind the keyboards, shall we?
Silver Wolf said:
It is some of the funniest shit to me how he can twist words so that no matter what he is the victim. Clearly some of his followers are of the same breed.
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Lucius, that is even more frightening than Halstead’s insistence on agreement. I am open about my spirituality to my colleagues and neighbors but being “outed” so that people could harass me in my home and place of work is a very scary thought. It must be even worse for someone who doesn’t have some level of control over their conditions of work. Be safe.
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The comment about doxxing was horrendous and inexcusable – and utterly out of place. Really, people disagree on the internet (and without invoking Godwin’s Law or resorting to rape and death threats..) and it’s somehow okay to bring up the concept of compromising someone’s personal safety, their family’s, or their work? Yeah, no.
Also, I am still facepalming at the sheer idiocy of how seriously it’s been taken that you somehow ‘went after’ his kids. Have these people never been anywhere else on the internet? Do they not understand how the internet works? Perhaps I’ve just been in more places online (i.e. forums and online gaming) where calling someone a troll (among many other less-savoury things) was something to laugh about more than anything else. His kids played him. Pointing that out isn’t insulting them. It’s internet slang. I used to call my ex a troll for being a pain in the ass in chat channels.. heck, he used to call himself one and we’d both laugh.
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