@natbaimel, Christianity, comedy, equality, fear, gay, homophobia, Religion
Why am I writing this at 1:30 in the morning. I really should be in bed. This happens to me. Way too much. Anyways, let’s get started.
Oh boy. I just know we’re going to face a world of enlightenment here.
Well, first off, if you’ve ever been to a Whole Foods, you will realize that they have another name. Whole Paycheck Foods. There’s one that’s just opened up a couple miles from me. They’re not pretentious like Trader Joe’s, and I can get some wonderful Scandinavian goat cheese there, but the place is bloody expensive…
Oh wait, you were talking about fearing Gay People. Well, here’s the thing. Homophobia isn’t about being scared of Gay people. It’s actually about something else.
You know, jokes are supposed to soften things up and get one to shruggingly admit that “hey, maybe I’m taking this too seriously.” But you know what…you’re not doing it for me. While the imagery certainly is funny (apparently yesterday was Judy Garland’s birthday, though I have no idea what she has to do with being gay). You’re dodging the point of the man’s remark.
Sure, most gay people aren’t really out there looking to convert straight people.
But there are some who do. Often in some sort of bizarre revenge idea of “fight the hetero privilege,” or something. One of the most memorable story arcs for me in a comic called Suicide for Hire was about such a gay person. And while that story is fictional, I’ve seen enough accounts to know it has some basis in factual history. So, there are some gay people who do intentionally go out to “convert” straight people.
Because some people, regardless of gender or orientation, are assholes who want to fuck who they want to fuck, and they do not care how the other person feels about it. Sometimes they use force, and sometimes they use psychology and coercion, but it happens.
And what you just basically said is “if that happens to you, you were secretly gay and enjoyed it, even though it was against your will.” So, way to blame the victim there.
Laughing it off isn’t going to change that.
Now see, here’ your making an ignorant assumption. You are assuming that people cannot be converted to new ways of thought or action of a sexual nature. Which really, isn’t true. Humans used to be polygamous, or at leas polygamous. Now, by and large, we’re monogamous. Many men and women enter prison as heterosexuals, but then engage in homosexual actives which might persist after their incarceration.
Convincing someone to believe and act the way you do is pretty much the primary way that ideologies are spread. Now, one can argue that sexual desire is not an ideology, but it is largely a psychological activity, and people can be trained in new avenues of psychological activity. It happens all the time. Heck, look at the BDSM community, strong will people can find themselves submissive, and weak people can find the strength to break out of their essential natures and dominate others. People become sexually excited by things they never thought they could be, some of which they thought were scandalous or horrific or morally wrong before. All because they’re exposed to new things and sometimes given positive or negative associations with those things.
Sexual behaviors and desires can be taught/programed into people. Now, we can argue that a person is predisposed towards certain desires and behaviors and this is true, but you cannot claim that desires cannot be taught with enough positive and/or negative reinforcement.
I, personally, am something of a Pansexual. I was not always a Pansexual. Most of my life I was straight. And you can say “oh, well, you were always that, you just wouldn’t admit it to yourself.” No. I freely admit everything to my self, good or bad. How did I end up from one to the other? Life, events, people. The internet (isn’t that how we all end up radically different?).
To give a great example of this failed logic, lets switch the action from sex to killing. Say someone believes that killing is morally wrong. But then, through a series of events, being led by another person, our first person ends up willingly killing someone. Was person A always a killer, secretly in their heart, and they only needed someone to show them the murderer they truly were? Or is it possible that through the influences of another person…they became something that previously they were not.
So sure, they might be gay Now, but nothing says that previously they could not have been straight. Well, except Gay Ideology, which insists you’re born what you are and can never change that.
Which…has some unfortunate implications beyond the sexual orientation when you think about it.
See, you just brought up the whole “incentives change behaviors” thing I mentioned. Admittedly, you’re mocking it, but you did acknowledge the principle. But it’s like those frogs in Jurassic Park who change genders based on societal numbers. People, given any number of reasons, will change their attitudes and actions if the incentive is good enough.
In this case, not being loudly proclaimed as a homophobic asshole to all near by might be enough to make a normally straight man engage in homosexual sex. Because in “this economy” being labeled a homophobe can cost you your job, social standing, and all your friends. After all, businesses can be shut down for denying Gay people cake, what do you think could happen to someone who denied them sex?
Given such potential reactions…phobia is a little easier to understand…
And you know what, you might be right. Ish. I’m pretty sure you’re missing the correct term. I’m sure there’s a Latin expression for “fear of being something” rather than just “Being scared of something.” But I don’t know Latin well enough to tell you.
But even so, Homophobia isn’t even about being scared of Gay people. But I’ll get to that in a second.
Well thank you for assuming that my heterosexual world was not fabulous and magical, nor that as a straight person I was magical in any ways. Apparently, straight people cannot be fabulous or magical. We’re boring and…idk…muggles? Because straight sex is bad sex, apparently.
And given some of the “magical” natures of homosexuality and it’s community…I find myself rather okay with that.
But here’s the thing, Homophobia is not about “fear of Gay people.”
It’s about power.
Because you never see people who are “homophobic” saying “I am a homophobe.” No, you will see them say that “homosexuality is wrong,” most of the time, for various reasons. The people who you most often hear the word homophobia coming from is gay people…towards people who do not like them.
All it is, in truth, is an attempt to take back power. “Oh, you don’t like me, that means you’re scared of me! I’m the bogey man in your fears! Ha ha ha!”
The truth is, there’s a lot of people ignorant about homosexuality. Most of them are straight, some of them are gay, and everyone thinks their in the morally correct position. Gay people think “I have the right to sleep with whomever I please.” And they’re mostly right, as long as it is completely consensual. People who oppose homosexuality, usually on religious/moral grounds…are also right. Because neither right is superior or inferior to the other. People have the right to believe what they want to believe.
And if the monotheistic religions want to say that an action like homosexualiy is a sin, regardless of if its a natural genetic condition or a choice…they can do that. It’s a moral question and everyone has the right to choose where they stand on moral issues. But that doesn’t mean that because you oppose something you’re scared of it. It just means…that you oppose it.
And people can claim that saying this stuff makes me homophobic. Really, that’s their choice, but what do I have to fear from the gay community. That they’ll “convert me?” I’m a fucking pansexual, if anything they should fear me because I could “convert” them to any number of sexualities out there by that logic. That I’m not secure enough in my sexual desires that they might make me uncomfortable?
Yeah…that would happen. -snirk-
Look, homophobia…really doesn’t exist. Not the way we’ve got our pop-culture understanding of it. Are there people who hate gays? Absolutely. But it’s not fear that motivates them. And labeling it a fear, well, that’s creating a falsehood. Those don’t generally tend to work out well for the people who created them.
Allow me to rephrase the problem. Hating gays because they are gay is fucking wrong and I will take it personally every time for reasons that are woven throughout my past and the pasts of people I care very deeply about. Some of whom are no longer alive because lynching still happens.
Lucius Svartwulf Helsen said:
In this, you are right. Hating gay people, simply because they are gay, is wrong.
Still, to me, a lot of the homophobia issue isn’t “hating gay people because they’re gay.” Most examples of anti-gay behavior seems to stem from “hating homosexuality because it violates some moral code.” Which is different. And if that leads to hate directed at people who practice is, often enough from what I’ve seen it’s more about hating someone for an action they are committing, rather than for who they inherently are.
Where in lies a major problem. Most people tend to treat homophobia on the same idea as racism. “You hate me for me,” as opposed to “You hate me for what I’m doing.” Most of the issues I’ve seen the homophobic label thrown out for are not “Gay people existing as gay people,” but most often for “gay people doing some action that violates another person’s moral code.” And that’s where the homophobia thing falls apart. It’s not fear of gay people existing, its a reaction the “transgressive” actions committed. (at least from the perspective of the offended “homophobic” party)
Take the religious freedom issue I’ve discussed numerous times. The baker refusing to make a cake for a gay wedding doesn’t hate gay people for being gay, but is labeled a homophobe because he doesn’t want to violate his morality. Those who stand up for the baker’s freedom to practice his morality (a right given to homosexuals when they practice homosexuality) are labeled as homophobes for essentially asking that the baker be given the same rights as the gay couple.
That’s why this comedian’s rant doesn’t work. Homophobia at present has nothing to do with the people fearing or hating gay people. It’s about gay people using a specific word to ostracize and threaten those who do not support them 100%.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I enjoyed this post a lot as a person who experiences same-sex attraction. I’ve always hated the word homophobia because it used as a way to shut down discussion with someone who disagrees with you. It is much easier to say “you’re afraid of me” or “you’re a bigot” than it is to engage in a dialogue about the morality of behaviors.
I don’t know a single person who is opposed to homosexual behavior who is “afraid” of homosexuals.
Anyway, I don’t really know for what purpose I’m commenting other than that I think the word is childish and immature.
LikeLiked by 1 person