AFA, folkish, gundsau, Heathen, huginn's heathen hof, Pagan, polytheism, troth, universalism
Why is it that I constantly find myself in actions of defense for groups I do not belong to and don’t even always agree with? Seriously, I’m trying to mind my own business, but this divine nature that insists on holding people to their own standards, or even the spirit of those standards, just keeps driving me to speak up. It’s gods damn annoying, what it is. I’m not even Folkish or Universalist as a Heathen. Of course, as the Havamal says:
“When you see misdeeds, speak out against them, and give your enemies no peace.” – Odin
So when I come across the following post by Grundsau Burrow entitled There is No Folkish and Universalist Debate in Heathenry I can just tell that I am about to experience a wondrous new world of
hatred and bigotry tolerance and diversity. Because you can bet that of the two optional meanings for this title being a) “there is no debate because both sides have valid points and the right to their beliefs” or b) “there is no debate because my ideological opponents have no right to disagree with my ideologies supremacy” that option A is not going to be the one we’re going with.
For the last few decades, the Heathen world has maintained an uneasy truce between its various umbrella organizations through what is known as the Folkish versus Universalist debate. The idea was that there is a side of Heathenry that believed you needed to be of Germanic descent to worship Germanic Gods, a side of Heathenry that believed anyone who felt personally called could worship the Germanic Gods, and an uneasy gap between them where each could “do as they see fit in their own halls”.
Eh, fair enough. Some people believe that a native population has a right to its native ways, given that their ancestors were the owns who had those ways as their religion and culture. And other people believe that it doesn’t matter who you are, you should be allowed to practice and believe what you please, regardless of who your native people are.
We’ve seen this debate when it comes to Native American spirituality, Asian spirituality, African Spirituality, and European spirituality.
Of course when it comes to Native American spiritualties the majority tend to fall on the side of “It’s their ways, they have a right to dictate who can and cannot worship and consider themselves part of the tribe(s).” And when it comes to African ones….while perhaps not the majority, the most vocal camp tends to be “get your filthy hands off my shit, you white fucks.” The Asians tend to be pretty silent about it, but then again most people don’t seem to go for theirs for various reasons.
But yes, an “uneasy” gap has existed between the Universalist and Folkish groups in Heathenism because religious tolerance is the rule of law in the USA and you are spiritually and legally bound to tolerate whatever religious bullshit the other religions come up with, no matter how offensive it is to you and yours. Why? So that they will do the same to you and your offensive religious bullshit.
Folkish types used reasonable-sounding arguments to support their side. “Native American tribes have their indigenous religions, and we have ours,” they told us. “People should seek out the traditions of their own ancestry; there’s no need for them to come to ours.” Then they would carefully exclude anyone who didn’t look white enough, while the rest of Heathenry turned the other way.
They are “reasonable-sounding” because they are “REASONABLE.” They use logic and reason to come to the conclusion that, if say, Native American tribes are allowed full rights to dictate membership in their tribes and their religions…and we are a nation that is not racist, but holds all people to the same standards and gives them the same rights…then European Tribes have the right to dictate membership in their tribes and of their religions.
And yes, that means that they can exclude anyone who isn’t “white enough”…whatever that means. I’ve never seen any information from the AFA showing what skin tones are relevant. But Native American tribes are allowed to exclude people who are not “Native American” enough*(1)
And yes, the rest of Heathenry turned away because it was not their business and they have no right to interfere.
Fucking Hela, at this point it sounds like Grundsau is arguing that other heathen religions should have the right to come in and police heresy in heathen religions not their own, which they are not members of. It would be like allowing the Baptists to join with the Calvinists to dictate what orthodoxy the Catholics were allowed to have. I wonder if Grundsau realizes they are arguing for an opening of the gates that would allow their own branch of heathenism to be dictated terms to by other organizations…which would include the AFA?
By allowing this uneasy truce for decades, by acknowledging this “debate”, we have given legitimacy to outright racism. We have given bigots and cowards a big, fluffy, internet blanket to hide behind. And it has cost us dearly.
Yes, yes we have.
We have allowed the Universalist camp to go around insisting that because of their “Race” a group like the AFA should not be afforded the same rights that Native American Traditions, ATRs, and many other ethnically based religious groups are given by dent of their existence.
This is indeed outright racism. And I’m not even folkish, so it doesn’t affect me. But by denying an ethnic group the same rights afforded to other ethnic groups, simply because of skin color or point of origin…is outright racism. It is the literal definition of racism. And by allowing this “Debate” we have allowed the Universalists their big fluffy blanket fort, permitting them to advocate for the racist discrimination against an ethnic religion, its peoples, and their rights to exist and self-determine.
The right of self determination, I might add, which is a god damn universal human right. A right which is not to be infringed against anyone, regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, or all of the gods damned above.
To the outside world, if they hear about “this Heathen stuff” or Asatru or some related term at all, racism gets lumped in with it. My own father came to me one day asking why a woman who sent him a friend request was listing Asatru as her religion and the National Socialist Party as her political affiliation. I had to explain why our religion gets connected with this garbage. To weakly argue “we’re not all like that”.
Reading this, there is a term that comes to mind. Vichy.
Vichy refers to the French government that was in power after the National Socialists invaded and took over France. Most everyone is familiar with La Resistance, the French citizens who engaged in terrorism against the Nazi’s in order to liberate their homeland. The Vichy were at the other end of that spectrum. They fully supported the Nazi occupation, eager for whatever scraps of power and permitted existence they could have by being good lap dogs. It’s not unlike the term Uncle Tom in the black community. Someone who sells out “their own” for the sake of their own comfort and pleasure.
Grundsau here, is only concerned with what other people think. The rest of society hears about Asatru, hears that some of its members are an ethnic group who believe in their group’s right to exist and self determine, and instead of giving that group the same rights they give to other minority ethnic religious groups, they insist on being completely racist twats and deny them said rights based on race. And along comes Grundsau and those like them, who eagerly throw their “own people” under the bus and try to curry favor by saying “we’z not all like dem, massa, sums us is gud fulks.”
Now me, I’ve been a Heathen half my life, and you know what I say when people start ranting about racist heathens? I shrug. I look them in the eye and say, “I don’t give a fuck.” Because after way, way to many years of watching the term racism being applied so unequally, the term means nothing to me. The AFA isn’t doing anything that a hundred other ethnic religions aren’t doing every day…and those religions never get called racists. My concerns, then are with my faith to my Gods, not with the public opinions of a bunch of bigoted racists who think their target is acceptable because of their victims ethnicity.
We’ve all had to explain. And apologize. And grit our teeth. And offer frith, or grith, or whatever word you like to use for “peaceful behavior extended towards others” in your form of Heathenry.
Well, everyone except the folkish. Or people like me, who don’t give a fuck what another man believes, so long as he isn’t violating rights or having his rights violated. We never have to explain or apologize.
Which, honestly, could be why the AFA is growing so much faster. They don’t apologize for who they are or what they are. They’re happy. I saw something the other day that said those on the “right” are happier than those on the “left” with the level of happiness increasing or decreasing based on how far. Apparently, “far-right” people are some of the happiest on the planet. Probably because they consider themselves good peoples with good cultures who have nothing to be sorry for (regardless of which race was embracing these things). Unlike the Left, who get progressively more unhappy. Probably because they’re either always having to apologize for who and what they are…or are constantly oppressed for who and what they are with no possible chance of the oppression ever ending.
And yes, many universalists have had to “grit their teeth and offer frith.” Of course, that says more to them being a bunch of ideological supremacists who cant stand the sight of someone believing differently than them than it does anything about how “Dreadful” these folkish people are. I mean, the horror, of having to tolerate the “unwashed barbarians” walking around your glorious and enlightened civilization. If only you could wipe their mud from your sandals and be done with their unclean filth.
Fucking Hel, that sounds racist doesn’t it?
Then it happened. The straw that broke the détente’s back. The AFA came out with a statement that you’ve probably seen by now if you keep up with the Heathen world online, confirming that they do not allow non-white nor LGBT practitioners in their faith.
Actually, all the statement said was that they preferred heterosexuals and native Europeans. But go ahead and lie. I mean, it’s not like you’re defaming and libeling actual human beings or something. Of course not. These are just mongrel degenerates born of miscegenations between white people. *(2)
In other words, according to the AFA, if you’re not a straight white person bent on making lots of babies in a 1950s style marriage, you’re not worthy to worship the Heathen Gods. And they won’t allow you to do so alongside their group.
Actually, while the AFA did come out in support of “traditional marriage” the important thing to know with that statement is that the AFA is about recreating the 900’s era “Traditional Germanic Family.”
Not the 1950’s “Traditional American Family.”
So yes, while wanting “straight, white people” as part of their tribe because…traditionally those who practiced Asatru are what we would call “white” and they were most assuredly straight at at least the same rates we are today (so about 98% heterosexual population)…the traditional families they’re talking about are from a society and time when women had pretty much all the same rights as men, from a civilization group widely regarded as the most sexually egalitarian in history (barring our modern age, and in some way surpassing it).
My Gods, the horror of a traditional marriage where women owned all the property, oversaw all the finances, and had virtually every right a man had, and could generally get her husband to use the rights he had that she didn’t in the way she wanted because otherwise she could lock him out of the house and pantry and no one would say shit.*(3)
I don’t believe in heresy, but them’s smitin’ words.
So you do believe in heresy, Grundsau. Because the instant you believe there is a religious believe that is worth being smited out of existence…you believe in heresy.
And just what is this heresy? The believe that ethnic Europeans have a right to self preservation via heterosexual marriages according to the ancient and sexually egalitarian traditions of their ancestors, preserving both their people and their ancestral way of life.
And because this violates the racist and sexist beliefs of Grundsau and many other Universalists…it is a heresy that must be completely purged. Purged, no doubt, by purging those who believe it from the face of the earth. So can we just call this what it is? I mean, if Grundsau was talking this way about blacks, Jews, Asians, or any other ethnic group, insisting that their believing in the right of self preservation and determination via a certain kind of sexuality…
We have covered the shame of racists and bigots for far too long with the fair-seeming garments of folkishness. But no more. More and more of the Heathen community is taking a stand, and saying this is not part of Heathenry. This is not who we are. This is not what we believe. You cannot claim to be part of our faith any longer, and you cannot continue to paint our faith with your bigoted brush.
- They are not the ones with the brush
- How you gonna kick them out?
I mean, seriously, the AFA isn’t going around painting all Heathens as racist bigots. The only people I see painting everyone as racists and bigots are a larger culture that seems to have an issue with “white people” even thinking they have the right to self preservation and the Universalist Heathens so busy playing Vichy trying to “out the racists” in an attempt to prove they’re not racists.
At this point in time Jo from Upsal would probably be reminding everyone that it was McNallen and the AFA who founded and started Heathenism in the Americas, making it the equivalent of the Catholic church when it comes to Heathenism, while the Universalists are an ever dividing group of peoples who split off from the original heathen organization (which was folkish) in what is equivalent to the Protestant reformation.
Grundsau is screaming the folkish are not the true Heathens, when the only reason Grundsaw exists as a heathen is because of a religious revival started by the Folkish. It’s like a Baptist insisting the Catholics aren’t Christians, when without the Catholics and their Christianity the Baptist would not even exist.
But I guess Freud was right when he said every son must kill his father in order to become a man. Or about penis envy, given that the AFA can apparently dictate all terms to Heathenism and all the Universalists can do is scream “we’re not like them” in a fit of cuckolded impotence?
The Havamal tells us, “When you see misdeeds, speak out against them, and give your enemies no peace.” Racism is not acceptable. Homophobia is not acceptable. Transphobia is not acceptable. Discrimination in our faith is not acceptable. Dictating to the Gods which followers They may or may not have is unacceptable, and hubris of the worst kind, the opposite of devotion.
Racism is not acceptable, I agree. So why are you and the other Universalists being racists, Grundsau?
And if Homophobia and Transphobia are not acceptable, then Heterophobia should also be unacceptable. So why have I seen so many heterophobic reactions and screaming fits about how the “heternormativity” i.e. idea that heterosexuality is normal, is the worst kind of evil?
If discrimination is not acceptable, why are you discriminating against the folkish, insisting that they have no rights to their heritage, their religion, their traditions, and the right to self preserve and self produce?
And if Dictating to the Gods which followers They may have is not acceptable then…Why are you dictating that the Gods may not have the AFA and other Folkish worshipers?
Why are you doing all these unacceptable actions, Universalists?
I join Huginn’s Heathen Hof in making Declaration 127, based on the stanza of the Havamal quoted above. Bigotry is not part of Heathenry, and it never will be. It’s time we finally said it.
There is no folkish versus universalist debate. We will not hide your shame any longer. If you are a bigot, you are not a Heathen.
Well then, I guess that Grundsau and Huginn’s Heathen Hof are…no longer heathens.
I mean, I’m presuming that HHH has much the same beliefs that Grundsau does. In which case, they are fully embracing racism and sexism. They are being bigots of the absolute highest order. Grundsau certainly has made an entire post explaining their bigotry and hatred towards the ethnic folkish of Heathenism and their sexual orientations. They have even gone so far as to sign a petition started by HHH which amounts to nothing less than an ethnic cleansing of their religion. They are insisting who the Gods may and may not have worshiping them, based solely on race and sexuality.
After all, it is the worship of Heathen Gods which makes one a Heathen, and if one is not a Heathen this implies that one does not or is not allowed to worship Heathen Gods.
Frankly, I find Grundsau in violation of their own moral laws, and guilty of the worst dishonors possible. By their own definitions and legislation they cannot be considered a Heathen. Those who join Grundsau, such as HHH, and the others who have signed said petition, I can only conclude are of similar mind…and thus by their own legislation cannot be Heathen due to their bigotry towards their fellow faithful on the basis of race, gender, and sexual orientation.
I ask the Gods, as the Son of Helheim and Husband of Hela, to view the words of these people. Let them be judged by their own deeds, according to their own laws, and and thus see if they are to be found as guilty of the crimes which they have declared to be heresy and unheathen. And if they are indeed guilty, may it be done to them what they have tried to do unto others. For that is right and just under the Law.
*(1) I know this from personal experience, because despite having a native american ancestor…I am denied membership in his tribe because I don’t have enough “blood purity” to qualify. So….kinda racist according to the universalist camp. I wonder if they’re going to start making declarations against Native American tribes for being racists and exclusionary?
*(2) Yes, I am aware that miscegenation is a term to refer to the undesirability of interracial breeding, but Juno’s Cunt, if it doesn’t convey the level of disgust it seems these people have for a “euro-heternormative” tribe like the AFA puts forth. I mean, the levels of disgust I have seen directed by Universal heathens towards the ideas of heterosexuality being normal and that being European isn’t evil are…well they’re some of the most racist and sexist attitudes I’ve ever seen. And I studied Judaism and the Civil Rights movement. I’ve seen some racist shit and this takes the damn cake.
*(3) And yes, that is recorded as having actually been something of a cultural norm. Do what your wife says, or you get nothing. No food, no shelter, no sex.
Virginia Carper – I have a new blog focusing on my polytheism – Neptune’s Dolphins.
Anyway, my take on this from the Roman polytheistic perspective and having Anglo-Saxon ancestors (and altar), is that the AFA has been the Great White Whale (pun intended) of certain people. Now they find that Moby-AFA is in striking distance of killing.
You have to ask “why this time?” “why this reaction?” “why this push?” when all the time, the people who despise Moby-AFA have been banging the drum a long, long time? Could it be that the cultural climate has changed in Pagansim? Could it because people are not longer willing to live and let live? Could it be that creeping left social ideology has overtaken Paganism?
I would be on board if the AFA was going around to the other Heathen groups and denouncing them, forcing them to defend themselves about their policies, and making life difficult for them. Has the AFA done that?
Two, since there is a problem of Nazitru in Heathenry, why don’t the Heathen groups promote themselves as being open? Why don’t they ensure that *their* groups remain open. I guess this Declaration is one way of networking, and sharing a standard religious ideology. They could form a group of Heathens dedicated to helping each other with the Nazitru problem, and stop focusing on AFA.
One other thing, I have read the non-Heathen support for the Declaration as well as the Heathen. They all seem to echo each other, and they all point to being fearful that someone will deny them their sexuality or something like that. They seem to take the victim stance. Has the AFA been bullying people into being silent or what?
I do believe a lot of this is virtue signalling, business safe practices, and harpooning Moby-AFA.
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I know you are disabled, and I also know you have legitimate reasons for this. So I am not speaking to you when I say this.
There seems to be a very large contingent of Pagans generally, many of which are heathen and who mouth the words of the Havamal without applying them to their lives. They’re morbidly obese, to the point that they are on oxygen, have joint and mobility problems, and in constant pain. They’re damaged emotionally and spiritually.
They have no concept of personal responsibility and the importance of doing what you can to help yourself, whatever that may be. They live on minimum wage jobs, or on disability, eat crap food they buy with govt aid, use government provided “health care” to get drugs that will keep their symptoms of their extremely unhealthy lifestyle at bay.
Any suggestion that their circumstances are a result of choices made, and making better choices would result in better circumstances is shouted down immediately as racist and fascist. These as far as I see are the heathens signing Declaration 127. Which tells me, as an able bodied adult working 2 full time jobs, that they are not worth getting excited over. And if they try to damage my ability to work with spurious claims of racism or fascism, they will have a far bigger problem than their knees hurting.
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I get that. Sometimes, I think the Internet takes on a life of its own, with the seeming ease of “action.” What is the action in the communities and people to people?
I do know that a few of the people have dedicated their lives to this cause in demonstrating and risking jail. I do respect them. I do not respect arm-chair activists who incite others or expect applause for their brave internet stand.
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Jön Upsal's Gardener said:
Wearing masks while committing crimes isn’t exactly a brave stand demonstrating and risking jail. It’s banditry. Let them take off those bandannas and Guy Fawkes masks (if only they knew anything about what Guy Fawkes was *really* trying to do, rather than just aping “V for Vendetta”!!!) and show their faces to the police and the people whose cars and businesses they’re burning, and suffer themselves to be tossed in the pokey as a consequence of their actions, and I might respect them.
MLK didn’t wear a mask. Rosa Parks didn’t wear a mask. The guy at the lunch counter in Selma didn’t wear a mask. These people are just cowards who are afraid to put their money where their very loud mouths are.
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Reblogged this on The Tin Foil Hat Society and commented:
“Now me, I’ve been a Heathen half my life, and you know what I say when people start ranting about racist heathens? I shrug. I look them in the eye and say, “I don’t give a fuck.” Because after way, way to many years of watching the term racism being applied so unequally, the term means nothing to me.”
This. Exactly this. Brilliant essay! Reblogging because the nonsense being put forward by other supposedly tolerant groups of heathens is nothing more than racist culturalist bullshit.
I literally had a heathen tell me this past weekend that she could care less if European cultures die out. Really? The culture and ethnicity your ancestors came from, that produced you, is worthless and not worth saving? Ok….so tell me how that honors your ancestors….?
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What a great blog post. Thank you.
I think the “Universalist Asatru” need to change their name now, as the term “Universalist” means “inclusive of all” – including folkish – and they certainly aren’t being THAT.
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