You want to say that ISIS and other Islamic Terrorist Organizations are not Muslims, and do not practice Islam.
Saying that ISIS is not based on Islam is like saying the Black Panthers are not based on Black Power, the KKK is not based on White power, or the Catholic Church is not based on Christian power.
If a man prays to Allah, follows the teachings of Allah, and performs his actions int he name of Allah, then he is a Muslim. It does not matter if he sells sea shells by the sea shore, or if he kills and enslaves, if he says he is a Muslim, and he does it in the name of Allah, then it is Islamic. You do not have the right, nor power, to take away a person’s faith or identity based on that faith, simply because you find the idea uncomfortable, or you are too afraid of Muslims for calling out their violent elements.
That is all…for now.
Devil’s advocate question: So the people calling themselves Heathens, Asatruar and/or Odinists and committing acts of violence against blacks, Jews, and I think at least one Pakistani community are also just exactly what they say they are? Faithful and devoted Heathens who are acting in the name of their particular deity/deities? Because while it hasn’t happened often that I know of, every outburst has been met with public renunciation of the responsible party by other Heathen/Northern types. They say the same, that this kind of racially motivated violence is not correct Heathen action.
There is no doubt in my mind that the Islamic State (because I refuse to dirty a goddess’ name by using their acronym) is a danger to everything around it. I’m in complete agreement with you on that part.
Lucius Svartwulf Helsen said:
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Essentually yes. See there are (in my mind at least) two components here. The Action (which has been deemed hateful/dishonorable) and The Faith. Now, both of these things are occurring arguably at the same time, but certainly in the same “place” if you will, the person doing the believing and acting.
A person believes in things independently of their actions. The KKK believed wholeheartedly in the Constitution and the Liberties of America…they just didn’t believe that Blacks/Minorities qualified for those Rights. So while they believed “all men are equal” their actions enforced acts of violence against those they did not believe, basically, were “men.”
This is exactly the idea behind ISIS and it’s actions. They will behave honorably with each other, act with supreme kindness (they provide free utilities and medical treatment to their citizens) but those who are not ISIS, or better yet, not “True Muslims” receive the horrors because they are not people.
So the “Heathen” who prays to Odin, then goes out and attacks a black person for being black…still believes in Odin. It is not the belief in Odin that you or I have, but it is a belief that still exists, is still grounded in that person’s faith. I do not have the power to take away that man’s faith, his belief, in the Gods, though I do have the power to not agree with his actions or why he did them. Say you have a woman that worships Frigga and believes in monogamy, but another woman who worships Freya believes in polygamy, and each believes that their goddess does not agree with the position of the other worshiper. Does one or the other lack faith in the Aesir, or do they merely disagree on what is “acceptable” behavior?
The racist Heathen is really, in my mind, no different. I disagree with his behavior, but I do not question his faith. That is a personal matter between the person and the Gods, or really just for the person. He engages in behavior I consider dishonorable, but am I a God to say “thou shalt not?” And even if I was, in the Aesir there are probably some gods who do hold views we would likely consider “racist” in one form or another. But not all do.
That’s why I treat the ISIS fighters as legitimate Muslims. They pray to Allah, more importantly research I have done makes them pretty much like our own Heathen Reconstructionists or the Christian Fundamentalists, people who go back to the original way of doing things and try to mimic it perfectly. Their actions are horrible, their creed despicable…but their faith, their trust, in that they believe in their Allah is certainly unquestionable, no matter what politicians or other Muslims would like to believe or say.
But that’s how I look at it, sorry if I got a bit wordy.
I accept your argument as possibly semantic but certainly logically sound. 😉 It makes sense. It also adds some measure of support to a working hypothesis of mine that fundamentalists are dangerous people. Of course, I have a lot of personal baggage attached to that hypothesis so it’s still a work in progress.
Anyone can call themselves anything, or be called anything by anyone else. Personally, I think they are all worshiping the same thing the KKK (who consider themselves Christians, as did Hitler for that matter), or the xenophobes among the Heathens: hate. That’s just my opinion, and I could very easily be mistaken. Point is, focus on the religion, or supposed religion, of these organizations is distracting from their actions and what needs to be done to bring these actions (and organizations) to a screeching halt.
As an aside, I find it utterly cool that these whack-jobs are referring to themselves with an acronym that spells out the name of a Pagan goddess! They hate Pagans, they hate women; and, like other contemporary religions coming from that same desert region, they abhor the very concept of a goddess … yet they call on the Kemetic goddess of birth, rebirth, and magic whenever they announce themselves, all the while identifying themselves as ultra-devoted Muslims! Talk about shooting yourself, and your own credibility, in the foot!
Lucius Svartwulf Helsen said:
Certainly, hate is one of the oldest things worshiped. I don’t think any one is motivated by only hate all that very often (the nazis were motivated as much by despair and envy) the KKK by fear, etc.
I am going to disagree that the focus on religion is distracting from their actions. One must know one’s enemy, what motivates him, in order to fight him best. I do think denying the religion and arguing over what the religion is and is not, certainly has been a distraction in the fight though, so I will agree on that part. Certainly, they need to be ended, and I’m all for a good SPQR style of ending it (crucifying every last ISIS fighter would please me to no end) and having the “legions” burn and salt their earth would be a joy to watch (and even join in).
It is really hilarious that they did take Her name. When I first heard about them, I was actually kinda hoping it was a bunch of Arabs who had converted back to the Ancient Egyptian ways and were forging their own nation. Sadly, I was to be disappointed.