cia, fbi, Heathen, karl seigfried, law, lokean, Loki, mueller, norse mythology blog, Pagan, polytheism, trump
Yesterday we talked about the fight Karl started with the Lokeans, and while I can’t say I have a great love for them I can certainly see why they’re pissed. So far Karl has shown a willingness to twist mythology to suit his points, and while I know enough to see him twisting politics in the same way to suit his points on Trump, I doubt the average Lokean can so I can see why they’d be pretty pissed off since Karl is trying to paint Trump as a sexist rapist who objectifies women.
Karl claims to have four examples of how Loki is like Trump, the first being “Objectifier of Women,” which really reads as Karl objectifying women even as he fails to understand them. The second one is Betrayer of Community.
Betrayer of community
In the myths, Loki repeatedly privileges his personal desires and needs over the well-being of his community. In addition to the tale of his willingness to aid the abduction of Idunn in order to save himself, Skáldskaparmál tells of Loki delivering the unarmed Thor to the giant Geirröd in exchange for his own freedom. Given Thor’s stated role in myths as the defender of deities and humans, Loki is willing to sacrifice the safety of entire worlds for his own personal benefit.
And, as we’ve covered, yes Loki is a dick who will screw everyone over for his own sake. Of course, what Karl is failing to mention is that in the case of Geirrod, said giant had captured Loki and threatened to kill him unless he brought Thor to him.
There is, of course, an element to this that Karl either didn’t consider or is deliberately leaving out: Wyrd. Loki is Odin’s blood brother, and Odin has probably shared with him his knowledge about things, including fate/wyrd. Since it was even shared with mortals that Thor’s fate was to die to Jormungandr, and since a man cannot cheat his fate, Thor’s death is locked in stone and cannot happen any other way. So Loki probably knows this, and may have figured “well, nothing can actually happen to Thor, or at least nothing too bad. And given he kills giants for breakfast, putting him with Giants is probably going to save my ass twice over.” Which, is basically what happens. They meat a Giantess, who give Thor some shiny toys, and he then goes and kills all the Giants. Don’t get me wrong, it was a giant dick move, but maybe not like Karl is trying to make it.
So once again it seems Karl is twisting myth to suit his needs.
Over and over, Trump has shown that he privileges his own desires over the safety of the nation he leads. Whether openly examining and discussing documents on North Korean missile tests in front of paying members of his golf resort, renting space in Trump Tower to the Chinese government for millions of dollars, or charging the entourages of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman so much for a five-day stay at one of his hotels that the income boosted its quarterly revenue by thirteen percent, the president has made clear that his personal enrichment trumps the security of the United States.
And Karl is doing the exact same with politics. Look, North Korea’s nuke program is an absolute joke. So talking about that joke publicly, where people can find out it is a joke is a great move that calms the populace even as the Mainstream Media was practically screaming “NUKES WILL RAIN DOWN FROM HEAVEN AND KILL US ALL, IMPEACH DRUMPH!!!!!! Secondly, that whole chinese thing was part of the whole trade deals Trump is doing, and sure he charged them a lot for it, but given the kinda security needed these things that makes sense and all in all the trade war does seem to be going in our favor at the moment. Dicking over the guy as you bend him over is a Chad Move. As for the Saudis, they are technically our allies, not our enemies, and those mother fuckers will drop millions just because they can. So, again, how is their doing so even a threat to the USA?
Now, had Karl mentioned failing to build the border wall, he might have had a point, but that would mean admitting he’s lying and Trump actually is trying to do shit to “safeguard the community” rather than betray it.
Loki lets imagined insults to his ego drive his role in the killing of both a praised servant and a praised god. By driving the murder of Baldr, he causes the gods “great deprivation and loss.” Would the presence of Baldr – a leader of warriors in both the Poetic Edda and the History of the Danes of Saxo Grammaticus – have swayed the outcome of the final battle and given victory to the gods at Ragnarök? Whether or not the answer is ultimately knowable, Loki makes doubly sure of Baldr’s absence during the conflict by guaranteeing that the god cannot return from Hel before the mass destruction of the final battle is complete. Loki’s dedication to avenging supposed insults knows no temporal limits.
Forgive me for not remembering what “insults” were supposedly given to Loki to make him kill Baldr. Unless of course it was the whole thing where the Aesir killed his side piece Angrboda, tossed one kid into the sea, dragged another one off to the land of the dead and stuck her there, and took the third one home as a pet they eventually chained up for eternity because they were scared. Because, yeah, totally petty of Loki in that case. That being said, I’ve long held that the Killing of Baldr was a necessary, if unpleasant act.
I mentioned this earlier, and have talked about it before, but Wyrd is very, very important. It is practically the fabric of reality. Things happen, and happen for a reason, because if they do not happen then either reality itself is destroyed (much like if you removed one of the fundamental laws of the universe, like gravity). Damaging wyrd could cause it to unravel and destroy everything in the future, and maybe even the past. Why is this important?
Because that’s exactly what Frigg tried to do for Baldr. Tl:dr, Baldr starts having dreams he’s going to die, and these are revealed to be prophecy. Frigg can’t stand to let him die and so goes around extracting a promise from literally everything in the universe that they won’t harm him (something she did for exactly zero of her other children), excepting mistletoe. This presents a problem. Baldr is fated to die. But Baldr cannot die. Baldr is not fated to fight in Ragnarok. But an unkillable Baldr would not only fight in Ragnarok, he could solo the entire damn event. You have just created a paradox, a universe ending paradox. Because not only does Ragnarok need to happen, from its ashes a potentially better universe is created with Baldr at the lead. Which Baldr cannot do without dying and without Ragnarok happening.
Which is potentially great for Odin, because he wants to prevent Ragnarok and his own death, not so great for everything down the line, or debatably for anyone else. And Loki sees this, knows enough about fate thanks to Odin to know what the fuck Frigg is about to fuck the hell up, and says…”Gods damn it.” So he rigs it that Baldr will die. He commits kinslaying, arguably the worse crime in Norse morality, and he pays for it. Dear gods does he pay for it. His two Aesir born sons are killed, gutted, and used to tie him down while his wife has to keep acid and poison from pouring into his face. But, in all likelihood, he did save the entire universe.
So, you know, great example of “betraying the community” there Karl…
In his 2007 book (co-written with Bill Zanker) Think Big and Kick Ass in Business and Life, Trump gives the following advice: “Always get even. When you are in business you need to get even with people who screw you. You need to screw them back fifteen times harder.”
Or, as my favorite roman of all time, Lucius Sulla put it: “No friend has helped me, nor enemy wronged me, whom I have not repaid in full.”
I’m sorry, but how is that a betrayal of the community Karl? I mean if a man screws you over, are you just supposed to take it for the “good of the community?” rather than try and prevent that guy from screwing over anyone else? Either Karl is the guy who screws people over and doesn’t wanna get hit back, or he’s a masochist who loves getting screwed and thinks it’s normal. Either way, not a way I’d like to see things done.
During his presidency, there are constant reminders of Trump’s deep dedication to revenge for perceived sleights. In addition to wanting to order the Justice Department to prosecute his political adversaries, Trump has repeatedly used the presidential pulpit to attack media outlets that he feels don’t show proper deference and business leaders whose successes he feels eclipse his own. He has shown himself fully willing to trash relationships with America’s long-term allies around the world when he is either jealous of their leaders’ popularity or feels affronted by their independence. Like Loki, he places a greater importance on his own easily bruised ego than on the priorities and needs of his society.
Yes, adversaries like Hilary Clinton who is known for breaking hundreds, if not thousands, of laws. Or media outlets who blatantly lie about him and the american public. As for those allies, most of them are allies in name only, taking billions in aid while doing absolutely nothing to contribute and often bashing the USA as a bunch of backwards hicks who deserve to get kicked in the balls. I’m sorry, but if wanting criminals, liars, and backstabbers to get their just deserts is a “betrayal of the community” then Karl can go fuck himself and his “community.” It sounds like shit.
Don’t Loki’s actions redound to the benefit of the community, though? Throughout the myths, Loki only performs actions beneficial for others after his harmful acts are discovered and he is threatened with grave bodily harm. There is a pattern to his myths: Loki does something intended to benefit himself; the act causes harm to the wider community; he is forced to make it right under pain of death; his externally mandated act of restitution results in some benefit – the gaining of treasures, the death of powerful giants, and so on.
Should we celebrate that his willingness to save his own skin by helping his captor abduct a goddess eventually results in the elimination of the giant when the benefit only arises after the gods discover his act and force him to make amends? Aren’t the gods the ones we should credit for the positive outcome?
Of course, Karl is ignoring the fact that like 90% of the time Loki is being threatened with death and torture before he goes and screws the Aesir, who then threaten him with death and torture until he fixes it. Look, he’s an ass, and generally brings it on himself for being an ass, but ignoring that 90% of his worst dickery is under threat of death is kinda a dick move, Karl. And certainly goes a long way to explain Loki’s dickery to the Aesir. I mean, except for Odin and occasionally Thor, no one is really that nice to him and he knows no one is coming to save his ass, so he has to do it himself.
Don’t Trump’s actions also sometimes help the community? He kindly agreed that family separation at the Mexican border was inhumane and took steps towards ending the policy, but only after his own support for the policy seemed destined to cause the loss of independent votes during the midterm election. Even then, he denied his own responsibility for the separations and put the word heart in quotation marks when claiming to care about the children.
House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer’s response to the situation could also be applied to myths of Loki: “I don’t applaud the president. He created a crisis. He said he solved the crisis. He has not.”
Where in Hoyer is absolutely lying. Trump did not create the “separating families” crisis. That was Obama and his policies. On top of which, part of the “separating children from adults” thing was due to the fact that a lot of those kids were actually kidnapped, to be used to get a better chance to stay across the border, and a number of them were being sold into sexual slavery. So yeah, let’s absolutely keep kids with random adults who kidnapped them and probably were going to whore them out for money! Great plan! So humane!!!!!!
Great example there Karl.
Opposer of law
Although there are hints in the surviving myths of rivalry and enmity between Loki and Heimdall, the poems and tales that we have show Thor as the god in strongest opposition to Loki. It is Thor who is called on to capture Loki when he seeks to escape righteous punishment, to drive him from the hall when he attacks the goddesses present, and to deliver him into bondage for his role in the murder of Baldr.
I’m sorry, are we just going to ignore all the myths in which Thor and Loki go around like a buddy cop movie then?
Thor is not the God in strongest opposition to Loki. Sure, it might be as Karl says that Thor was tasked with capturing Loki, but that’s because a) Thor is an unstoppable monster in combat and b) Loki practically was his best friend for a while so he’s the one to know 90% of Loki’s tricks and tactics. So there’s no real chance of Loki tricking or overpowering Thor. Karl, stop twisting shit.
It can be argued that Thor’s hammer is a symbol of community – a symbol of belonging to a community and of protecting it from harm. In The Symbolism of Evil, the French philosopher and theologian Paul Ricoeur writes that myths are “a species of symbols,” that they are “symbols developed in the form of narrations.” If Thor’s hammer is indeed a symbol of community, and the hammer is repeatedly raised against Loki, what does Loki symbolize?
Except Thor’s hammer is not “Repeatedly raised against Loki,” is it Karl? If I remember my timeline correctly it goes like this. Baldr learns he is going to die, Frigg tries to rig the game, Loki finds out and shits his pants because a) end of the universe and b) they fucking murdered his girl and locked up his kids, so he finds the mistletoe and makes a dart, and then during the nightly “throw shit at Baldr” game he gives it to Hodr who throws it. Baldr dies, Gods shit themselves, Hodr goes “did I make it?,” and they all kill Hodr in a fit of rage as he blindly wonders what the fuck just happened.
Then, some time, much later, some god throws a party and invites Odin and a bunch of others, but not Loki. The same Loki whom Odin swore he would never have a drink unless there was also one for Loki. So Loki shows up, because fuck that guy, and finds Odin and everyone having a good time. The same Odin who fucked over his side family. So Loki gets a bit drunk, a lot pissed, and starts insulting literally everyone there because they are all giant fucking assholes to him, and in the process lets slip something that makes everyone figure out he was behind Baldr getting killed. So everyone gets pissed because they basically murdered an innocent guy and they’re all insulted with stuff that probably had a lot of truth in it, and they get Thor to go punch him and drag him back for some good old vengeance.
Which was about the only time I recall Thor ever seriously raising Mjolnir against Loki.
I would argue that he represents all that is harmful to the community itself, from the placing of self over others to the objectification of women. The opposition set up in the myths between Loki and Thor shows the son of Laufey as a figure who seeks to escape punishment for breaking the norms of the society, who indeed seeks to mutilate the very instrument of the enforcement of the law, as he interferes with the forging of Mjölnir and causes it to be made with a defect in the handle – the very place where the hand of the enforcer grips the instrument of justice.
Objection! Mjolnir was not the symbol of justice, especially not when it was being forged. Loki had no idea who was going to get what, and it was literally his head on the line if everything came out perfect.
And as we’ve already covered previously, Karl can’t even prove Loki was objectifying women, as neither of his example had anything to do with women being objectified! Nor does Loki exemplify “escaping punishment by breaking the norms of society.” Karl hasn’t even tried to show that. What social norms did Loki break, exactly?
Can we honestly say that the current president is opposed to the rule of law in the United States? Unfortunately, his disrespect for and attacks on American institutions have been nearly continuous. On his very first day as commander-in-chief, Trump stood in front of the memorial wall for fallen agents at CIA headquarters and used the opportunity to attack his critics and boast of his accomplishments, mere days after publicly comparing the U.S. intelligence community to Nazi Germany. Just this week, he used his Thanksgiving call with U.S. service members serving worldwide to attack federal judges who have disagreed with him and to discredit CIA conclusions about the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi.
Okay, first off, public institutions are not laws, and attacking them is not an attack on the law! And if we’re going to talk about the CIA, then attacking them would be tantamount to upholding the law! I mean, this is the fucking CIA! The guys literally behind every drug cartel in Central and South America! The literal number one reason why we have blatantly lost the war on drugs! The very agency who “couldn’t find” Osama Bin Ladin despite the fact he lived for five fucking years in the same house!!!! In PAKISTAN!
And yes, I’m sure Trump did rail against federal judges, because they are assholes who have, at every attempt to even slow down people coming into this country that might be a real, physical threat, blocked every single attempt. Often from locations that will never have to face consequences for their actions! Like that motherfucker in Hawaii who blocked the travel ban, knowing full well he would never see a single fucking person in his state and thus never have to worry about getting blown the fuck up!
Trump’s public and private rage at members of the Justice Department and intelligence communities has been well-documented, and the president has not been shy about viciously attacking the “stench” and “real bad ones” at the FBI. This week, he repeatedly lectured George W. Bush appointee Chief Justice John Roberts in a series of tweets attacking the idea that the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit is an “independent judiciary.”
Ah, yes, the same FBI who when confronted by actual criminal actions by the Clinton’s said “Nothing to see here, everything is okay!” while performing illegal wiretaps on the president, his family, his supporters, and numerous other people. Yes, the FBI is a glowing example of morality right now.
The president’s greatest foil in the legal system has been Robert Mueller, currently serving as special counsel leading the investigation of “any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump” and “any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation.” Trump has consistently insisted that there has been “no collusion” and that Mueller’s investigation is a “witch hunt.” If Mueller is playing the part of Thor in this story, serving as the dedicated challenger of the one who flouts the rule of law, then Trump is acting out Loki’s part in mucking about with the handle of the hammer as he endlessly obstructs the investigation, obfuscates his relationship with Russia, and promotes those who publicly attack Mueller’s credibility – such as Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker, who has echoed Trump’s portrayal of the investigation as a “witch hunt” and “political fishing expedition.”
And comparing Muller to Thor is about the worst insult I have read in an entire post based around insulting everyone Karl doesn’t like.
I’m not going to get into it, but Muller has been doing this investigation for pretty much two years now, has turned up practically no real evidence, and most of what he’s got is either inferred things, or shit he’s gotten through literal intimidation and harassment. He has stormed private homes with barely functioning warrants (if that) repeatedly harassed his targets for the slightest, tangential, and unrelated crimes he can use to either discredit them or force them to confess to what he wants them too. Even the situation with Cohen has been so brutal, so borderline a violation of numerous civil rights, that anything he’s gotten Cohen to say should be viewed with the utmost suspicion and with the knowledge that anything Cohen supposedly did for Trump has been done by hundreds of lawers for powerful people and it has never been an issue before, and honestly if we did enough digging we’d probably find similar shit having been done by Muller himself or on his behalf. Because it is safe to call a two year investigation that has turned up literal shit a witch hunt, especially when its tactics are more about harassing than investigating!
Loki’s disrespect for the law extends beyond simply breaking codes of social behavior. Does he operate by any moral code whatsoever, or his he purely amoral? As discussed above, the myths show him operating solely out of self-interest and only righting his wrongs or acting for the good of the community when he is physically forced to do so.
I honestly don’t know enough Loki mythology to say, but given the absolute shit show that has been Karl’s post I don’t just take this statement with a grain of salt, I have drained an ocean and gathered all the salt that lay with in to take that with this post. Frankly, and I love the Marvel comics (especially the older stuff) but Karl’s view of Loki seems viewed more accurate if we’re talking about the classic comic book character than if we’re talking about the God from the Myths. Loki had a habit for looking out for his friends when he wasn’t in an absolute bind, at least early on before dickery begat assholery in a giant vortex that fed on itself.
This week, discussion of the president’s core relationship to morality was foregrounded in the wake of the bizarre “Statement from President Donald J. Trump on Standing with Saudi Arabia.” Released by the White House in reaction to reports that the CIA has concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman directly ordered the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, Trump’s statement begins by asserting the great evil of Iran and the dedication to “humanitarian assistance” of Saudi Arabia, then discusses the great financial wealth-generating benefits of selling weapons to the Saudis, repeats Saudi government slander of Khashoggi as an “enemy of the state,” undermines the conclusions of U.S. intelligence agencies, and pledges to support Saudi Arabia as a partner against terrorism and provider of oil. Labeling Khashoggi as an “enemy of the state” echoes Trump himself calling CNN reporter Jim Acosta an “enemy of the people” earlier this month.
Well, let’s be honest, Jim Acosta is an enemy of all mankind, people and reporters. The man is only interested in growing his own legend and doesn’t care who he dicks over to grow it. You could make a greater case for Loki being like Acosta than you could Trump by Karl’s own logic in this article.
As for the situation in Saudi Arabia, Trump isn’t going to throw them under the bus. The Saudis are the linchpin of the middle east (ignore what the Jews say about Israel), with the highest oil production, the most power in dictating the sale of oil, and the most wealth in the region. Oh sure, I think they should all be nuked to kingdom come because they’re also behind a lot of the terrorism, but they’ve covered their tracks enough you can’t just bomb them over it, and they’re pretty solid allies with Israel and if you think the Israelis and their dual citizen congress people are going to let you do shit about it, you need a few more red pills. So Trump’s hands are pretty much tied when it comes to supporting the Saudies, because they can crash this plane with no survivors.
After the statement’s publication, journalists, academics, elected officials, and others commented on what Prof. Roland Paris of the University of Ottawa called “a sickening caricature of amoral realism.” Even before the statement was issued, Khashoggi’s fiancée Hatice Sengiz wrote – in words paralleling the above discussion of Loki – that the Trump administration is “devoid of moral foundation” and has approached the killing “through the cynical prism of self-interest.”
Well, given the absolute state of the morals of all these people calling Trump immoral, I’d pretty much take that as a complement. If a bunch of baby eating, satan worshiping, human sacrificing pedophiles called me immoral, I’d probably be pretty proud of myself.
So that’s going to wrap up part 2, and we’ll finish off the shitshow tomorrow in part 3. Again, the biggest take away from me isn’t anything involving Loki or Trump, but that Karl can’t into mythology or politics and seems mostly interested in just twisting shit to push his agenda. As for the Wild Hunt’s part in all this…it’s about what I expected. They’ve always been a really leftist site, but regardless of that it really does seem that you can get away saying whatever the hell you want, no matter how badly written, so long as the words “fuck drumph” are part of it. You’d think a Pagan Website would do a little bit better ground work on vetting articles, even if they are written by a “celebrity” when it comes to these things, but apparently not.
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