Asatru, dead, Death, dishonored, folkish heathen, Heathen, Hel, hitler, jo upsal's garden, nazi, Pagan, racism
So, I go and write five posts explaining why some people would be attracted, or at least sympathetic, to Nazism in this age. Sure, ostensibly it was to be why Heathens do it, but lets face it, Heathen’s aren’t the only one doing it. Which is why I started writing it. Honestly, I’ve been toying around with a sixth one to explain why Nazism, even “nod and wink” nazism would appeal to Heathen in particular. But before we get to that, we kinda have to talk about the entire situation in general because without a foundation of knowledge, what people know vs what may have been vs what people doubt is going to make it so people can’t understand the why.
Sadly, before I can even put that into something more than a thought experiment, I have to clear more air. Because, apparently, publicly stating in every post and several posts beyond that that I am not a Nazi nor am I publicly declaring a Forth Reich (or whatever I’m supposed to be doing these days), that isn’t enough and I have to keep doing it. Mostly be cause Jo has decided to call me out himself. I have no idea why he decided to do it in blog form rather than just talking to me, but hey. We are brothers, and we are Heathens, so let us air this before all of Heathendom and let there be no bad blood.
I really, honestly, didn’t want to have to post a follow-up on this topic, but considering it was my post originally that triggered this series of posts from the otherwise-usually-terrific Son of Hel, I think I should point out that he has completely and utterly missed the point of the original.
Jo, I did not miss the point of the original. The point of the original post you made (as I understood it) was to call out “crypto-nazis” who you felt were “nodding and winking” about their Nazism at rituals and so forth. Because of allll the problems we have in Heathenism, Nazis and white supremacists are the most important. Not the bullys who scare new Heathens away with their atheism, or lore-hounding, or their #Havamalwitches. No, the problem is a bunch of people winking and nodding over their love of a short lived German nation that did some really bad stuff (although no worse than anyone else was doing at the time) with the express goals of protecting the Folk.
And I’m just going to say, I had to wonder if part of your original post wasn’t because McNallen has been openly going “Wotan” on his new projects. Frankly, the timing seemed odd that he would do that, and then you start going all nazi-hunter, but I really didn’t want to assume anything.
But no, the point of the original was to call out a problem as you saw it. Which is fine, and I support Heathens doing just that. But I think it would be fair to say you missed the intent of my posts. You called out them doing it. I attempted to explain why they did it.
The backlash he has received for posting a five-part defense of National Socialism (and for all his attempts at backpedaling, that’s what this has been) does nothing more than to demonstrate my original point. And that is, quite simply; it doesn’t fucking matter.
I didn’t backpedal. I stated from the start that the posts were not an endorsement, and my goal was to provide information and reporting. Yes, I repeated that often, and with louder and more prominent disclaimers when it became obvious that some people were not going to fucking pay attention to them and were going to assume I was a Nazi simply because I talked about the History of the Nazis.
As for “it doesn’t fucking matter” I would say very clearly, that it does fucking matter. Nazism would not be growing if it didn’t fucking matter. Claiming that Nazism doesn’t matter when Nazism is growing is like saying Communism doesn’t matter when Anti-fa is beating people up in the street.
It doesn’t matter if you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that National Socialism is the best economic system ever devised (it’s not)
I never said it was. I just said it had some good ideas. There is no perfect economic system and I will be completely honest and admit that National Socialism probably only worked as an economy because the Germans were…well German. Frankly I don’t think we could make it work in America for a number of reasons.
It doesn’t matter if you have films showing the Allies building fake gas chambers (they didn’t)
Which video was this? I linked a number. And honestly…meh. I know I sound like a monster, but the videos were from people’s perspectives, and the point was to illustrate those perspectives. At this point I don’t expect 100% accuracy from anything. It’s not going to happen. And when it comes to the rise of Nazism, it doesn’t matter if the Allies didn’t make fake gas chambers. What matters is some people believe they did. And much like people fighting over Hillary or Trump winning the popular vote, it doesn’t matter what the truth is because humans are going to believe what they want.
It doesn’t matter if Germany had legitimate grievances after the Treaty of Versailles (it did)
It doesn’t matter if National Socialism did some, or even many, good things for Germany before September 1939 (it did)
It doesn’t matter if the Wehrmacht operated according to the Geneva Convention and otherwise generally honorably during the war (they did, for the most part)
It doesn’t matter if the Communists killed ten times as many people as the Fascists did (they did)
Now Jo is saying it didn’t matter that the Germans had legitimate grievances, that the Nazis saved the German people from economic deprivation, that the Wehrmacht operated according to the lawful rules of war, and that the Communists did kill ten times as many people as the Germans.
Except, Jo…it does matter to the people who believe in Nazism. All those things matter because they’re true, because they were right. Because when you’re treated as a monster for believing in something with one-tenth the body count of an ideology that is Celebrated in Schools and Media, and the entire justification for you being the monster is your body count, people will notice the hypocrisy and feel justified in their outrage.
You can insist it doesn’t matter because the ideology is tainted…but to those who believe in the ideology do not care that it is tainted both because of the hypocrisy, but also because they themselves have already been labeled with the taint of being Nazis themselves…and the fact that Germany was in the right means to them that they are justified in their beliefs.
I’m not saying they’re right, I’m merely pointing out that to them they are justified by the Rights the Nazis were in.
It doesn’t matter if there really is a world-spanning Jewish conspiracy to exterminate white people that spans from every kosher deli owner up to George Soros (there isn’t)
“It doesn’t matter if you believe there’s a conspiracy to exterminate your race, you’re not justified in wanting to protect it.”
Okay look, I do not believe my local Jewish baker (assuming I have one) is out to murder the white race. Honestly, I suspect most Jews do not give a fuck about such things and want to just go about their lives earning a living and caring for their family just like everyone else. That being said…there’s certainly documented evidence out there in the source of direct quotes to prove that there are Jews out there who are completely racist towards white people and would like nothing more than to see them exterminated. Just like there’s white supremacists, or black supremacists, or asian supremacists, or Islamists who want to watch everyone not them get killed off.
Every race has it’s assholes. And telling folks worried about the effects of Jewish supremacists that they don’t have to worry is probably as effective as telling black people worried about white supremacists they don’t have to worry. Sure, maybe there is no threat out there, but that’s not going to change how people feel when faced with racism.
All of those things would be, and are, completely overshadowed by the fact that the National Socialist “brand” has been forever tainted in the public mind because of the crimes the regime committed. You already lost that particular war of ideas decades ago, and you are never, ever, going to win it. To even make the attempt simply tarnishes you, and no amount of trying-to-be-clever backpedaling about “pointing out the good points isn’t the same as endorsing the bad points” is going to change that.
Once again, I am not trying to salvage Nazism. Frankly, I will fully admit that as far as things go, it is forever tarnished and never to be brought back. Well, except for the one thing that actually is happening and which Jo no doubt has been exposed in his many years of Heathenism.
It is true, we can never bring Nazism out of the mud. However…people most certainly can be thrown into the mud and buried with it.
I’ve talked about it for years, and I’m not the only one. The term Nazi used to be the greatest insult society had. But it is a coin that has been through so much inflation as to almost be worthless. During the last election Hillary Clinton equated 50% of Trump supporters as “Deplorables” and described them with the same language used to describe Nazis. Right there, 25% of the American populace was listed as a lost cause of xenophobic, homophobic, racist, sexist, evil monsters.
And when there is no more room in Hell, the dead will walk the earth.
Day in, Day out. Day in, Day out. Day in, Day out. Day in, Day out. Day in, Day out. Day in, Day out. Day in, Day out. Day in, Day out. Day in, Day out. Day in, Day out. You’re a Deplorable. You’re a Sexist. You’re a homophobe. You’re a Transphobe. You’re an Islamophobe. You’re a Xenophobe. You’re a White. You’re a Cis.
You. Are. A. Monster.
You. Are. A. Nazis.
The Rise of Nazism is not about Salvation. It’s about fucking Damnation. Every day people are DAMNED for wanting to preserve their nation. For wanting to preserve their culture. For wanting to preserve their fucking gender. For wanting to not have children slicing up their genitals, or being gang raped, or being mowed down in the street or being blowing up with fucking bombs. And for protesting this THEY ARE DAMNED AS NAZIS.
NEWS FLASH: Nobody today going around waving Nazi flags is doing so because they believe in the 1932 NSDAP job creation program or because they think the Autobahn is so wonderful. They’re doing it because they hate Jews and blacks and they like the fact that the Nazis tried to murder as many Jews as they could*.
Yeah, okay, so they like the Nazis because they murdered Jews. And, part of that, is that they can identify with the reasons the Nazis murdered the Jews. Jews are always on the leading edge of social progress. Sometimes that social progress destroys valued ethnic traditions like a man is a man because he has a penis, and a woman is a woman because she has a vagina. And when you have Jewish people going “No, women can have penises and men can have vaginas” and that flies in the face of a thousand years of biological science and social tradition, and it looks like said Jewish folks are trying to get your child to carve up their genitals with a knife…people are going to be fucking pissed. And that’s just one example.
That’s not even getting into the actual racism some Jews publicly have for whites.
They see people trying to victimize them, and they celebrate the historical example of someone who fought against it. Just like black people do all the time with Malcom X, or that new movie “The Birth of a Nation” which was all about that slave revolt that slaughtered men women and children. Or, you know, like how we Heathens cheer on the Great Heathen Army for having btfo’d the Christian English after they slew Ragnar.
Heroes are celebrated by humans because they are violent people good at killing the perceived enemy.
Coincidentally (at least I think it’s coincidental; as far as I can tell neither side has mentioned this blog or Son of Hel, so I’m assuming it’s just something in the air at the moment), there’s a bit of a back-and-forth between Varg Vikernes and Guardians of Scandinavia (which seems to have either taken down all their videos or have had them taken down for them) about whether Tribalism or National Socialism is the best route to go in Scandinavia. Varg seems to be of the opinion that National Socialism isn’t viable because the Jews and their puppets in the American military wouldn’t ever allow it, while the Guardians seem to think that National Socialism is absolutely the only way that Europeans will ever endure, and any other approach is doomed to failure. Le sigh
Look, I don’t know anything about Varg or the Guardians because frankly I was interested in talking about the history of shit, and all I know about Varg is memes of him being a “no fap” guy who is a little bit crazy and apparently killed a dude. Not even sure what the Guardians are.
That being said…from what Jo here says, idk. Maybe they have a point. Certainly, Europe and the US cannot continue on our present Debt based economic system, where we constantly borrow money from private banks that we pay back by driving our citizens into ever greater amounts of debt and require us to import millions of immigrants just so we can saddle them with credit cards and loans to keep the economy trying to chug along in a world where money’s value is based off of absolutely nothing. Is National Socialism the way to go? Idk, a currency backed by goods and labor probably is a good alternative to eternal lie debt. But I will admit that Varg probably has a point because the Banks who presently own our economy will use whatever military power they can buy to prevent a “labor and goods” based economy that does away with Usury because that would literally destroy their power.
You know, kinda like what happened with Nazi Germany.
There is one exception, however.
If one has a track record of being patently against the excesses and crimes of National Socialism, unabashedly and unreservedly, then one might — might — have a chance to redeem certain of the genuine parts of Germanic tradition that are perceived as tainted by the National Socialist regime. And there are indeed worthy projects along those lines that have been done in the past, are being done today, and are still to be done in the future.
But I thought all of Nazism was forever tainted?
Jo, you are my friend, so please understand what I’m about to say is spoken in good faith, even if it is a bit of a joke I picked up from /pol/. This is what you sound like with this paragraph:
“Maybe if I’m a good goy, the Jews will let me have one of my toys.”
Nazism is horribly tainted. There is no saving it. There is no pulling it from the mud. You and I both agree on this. The only difference between you and I, is that I realize the rise of Nazism is not due to people trying to salvage it, but people being ground into the mud and grabbing the only lifeboat left to them.
Every damn day it is a fucking struggle to preserve and reclaim our ancestral ways. And every fucking gods damned day there’s another accusation of Nazism over stuff we thought had been reclaimed thirty fucking years ago. Every. God. Damned. Day.
There is not a folkish Asatruar alive who has not publicly and repeatedly denounced Nazism who has not still been called a Nazi. Not. One.
It’s happened to me, it’s happened to you. It’s happens to Steve. It. Has. Happened. To. Everyone. Of. Us.
There is no magic number of Ave Friggas. No “Bless me AllFathers.” Nothing. You could spend every fucking minute of every fucking day saying “Nazis are Bad” and it will never stop you from being called a Nazi because you are a Heathen!
There is no redemption. Jo. There just isn’t. Look at us Jo. All I did was fucking report on people’s points of view and historical facts and you, my friend, my brother in faith, are practically calling me a Nazi!
Redeeming the runes themselves was a task, successfully done by rigorous academic study applied in a strictly apolitical context. There’s currently a movement afoot to redeem the swastika, both by those who are sincere and those who are disingenuous; the latter aren’t doing the former any favors, by the way.
And you know what happens when you go out with the Runes? When you put them on a Flag? When you wear them on your shirt?
You get called a Nazi, Jo. How may decades have we been working to take back the Runes? How many? How many “apolitical” scholars have there been? And it Still Fucking Happens.
And yes, I would love to have the Swastika returned to our faith. I’ve said before I think it probably is the symbol our faith should have even over Mjolnir because historically it was that important to our people. But we’re never going to get it back. We might think we got it back. But we won’t have. We’ll still get called Nazis for it. Hell, it will be the damning proof of our Nazism. Hell, the comics you posted proves that point well enough.
There is no salvation.
There are doubtless more such battles to be fought because the Nazis tore through our lore like a tornado looking for bits and pieces to use to inspire their followers, but they’re never going to be won by people who are obviously doing it as a way to attempt to “normalize” National Socialism. Because that’s not going to happen. Ever. Just stop trying. Blame it on the “total control of the Jews over the national media” or whatever paranoid fantasy keeps you from realizing that nobody’s really in control of what happens in the world, but just stop. Let’s try to keep the good stuff without embracing the bad stuff, mkay?
There is no “embracing the good stuff without the bad stuff,” Jo…because as far as the entire world is concerned…it’s all bad.
It’s not some Jewish conspiracy. It’s not some “media controlled narrative.” It’s the simple truth. The Nazis were the bad guys.
And I can show historically that Hitler wanted peace, that Germany didn’t start shit. That they obeyed all the rules of war, and that they never started atrocities that everyone around them hadn’t already been doing for years. I can prove historically that they were justified in how they felt towards Jews. I can prove anything and everything. And as you say…it doesn’t matter.
There is no saving it.
Just like there is no saving the people damned for it. I’ve lost count of how many innocent people I have read or seen get destroyed with just the accusation of Nazism. Hell, there’s a guy in Scotland who is going to jail for years because he taught his girlfriend’s dog to salute Hitler as a fucking joke. Years Jo, for a joke. That’s not counting the people being labeled as Nazis and hunted down in their own countries for protesting terrorism. Or any of a thousand, million other examples.
There is no saving them, Jo.
They. Are. Damned.
And what can the damned do, but serve Satan? If you are cast out from Heaven to serve in Hell, do you still pray to the Lord, or do you pray to the monster promising to save you?
Or, to put it in more Heathen terms: When denied Valhalla, What can the Dead do, but Serve Hel?
So they pray to the monster. They look to the one monster raised up as the greatest of monsters. A monster who was damned so because he was the one who stood up for “them” in the past. This isn’t about salvaging the Reich, Jo, this is about embracing the damnation and becoming monsters themselves in the hopes of saving them and their people.
Since “folkish” doesn’t mean “racist”, that should be easy enough.
Except it does Jo. To the normies, to the christians, to the other pagans, hell even to the Universalist Heathens, Folkish means racist. And all our work, all our blood, sweat, and tears, hasn’t changed that. We aren’t racists. We can judge people by their character and not their skin. Hell, I’ve got quotes that show Hitler wasn’t a racist, but admired and supported the existence of all races (except the Jews). But that’s internally. As far as the outside world goes…yeah, we’re racists. And we always will be racists.
And nothing we’ve done has changed that. Honestly, I don’t know that there’s anything out there we could do to change that. No amount of deeds, oaths, or mighty accomplishments has changed it.
Just to clarify the attempt of the original and this post. I am not trying to attack anyone. Honest! I am making a genuine plea to knock off a trend that I think is genuinely harmful not only to Asatru in specific, but our Folk in general. There are so many talented, creative, and awesome people who insist on trying to be “cute” and walk this line, that I think is so ultimately harmful to our cause. Put your energies into things that aren’t so thorny (or “edgy” if you prefer) and I think you’ll find the results are way more impressive, and the end result far more effective, than you think.
Jo is my friend, and I understand what he is trying to do. As far as he is concerned, this “wink and nod” stuff only hurts us Heathens. And, I’ll admit, he’s not wrong.
Forgive me if this sounds odd.
Jo is an honorable man. He is an honored man. He walks in the light, with the favor of the gods. His honor is true. Sunna shines her face upon him, Odin looks upon him favorably. Thor guards his steps. Jo is a man of honor, with all that means among us Heathens. Jo is “alive.”
But because Jo is an honorable man, and sees the world in turn with the honor he has, Jo cannot see the realm of the Dishonored. He cannot see the realm of the “dead.” Oh, he can see the bodies where they lie on the ground, slain. He can see the burned villages, the ruined crops, the pillaged temples. This is why he and I agree on so much. He can see the bodies.
But he cannot see the souls.
He cannot See the Dishonored.
Jo is a man of life, and he looks at Nazism as a living thing, attempted to be created again by the living. But the living do not turn to Nazism. Nazism is dead. And it is a thing of the dead. Those walking corpses who have lost everything simply because they were “dishonored” by society. Because they protested the wrong thing. Because they would not serve under the laws of their masters, and so were slain. Oh sure, their bodies still walk about on Midgard, but their souls, their honor…that is dead.
Those Nazis he sees nodding and winking? They’re dying. They realize that they are dying, and that there is no golden hall for them. Just a long, slow straw death, as they are dishonored in life, and that which they believe in is slowly bled to death as a sacrificial offering to whatever political gods hold sway.
So they laugh, and they joke, and they nod, and they wink. But is the laughter and jokes of dying men in hospital beds, looking for some small comfort until at last, the reaper takes them, the Norns cut their thread.
But I am of the dead. I am Hel’s Son, her lover, her husband. And I see these things. I see the Dishonored. I See The Dead. Everyday.
I see the dead as they are slaughtered every day for the crime of wishing to preserve their nations. To preserve their cultures. To let their children go to concerts without being bombed. To go to the store without being raped. To read comics without being told they are the worst evil on this planet and that they need to kill themselves!
I SEE IT EVERY DAY, JO!
A countless, unending stream of the dead!
I see it every day, as the situation gets worse, and worse, and worse. I see it every day, knowing that we are reaching the point where the only way our people survive is by being MONSTERS! The only way it ends is either everyone dead in Hel, or there reaching a point where there is no more room in Hel and the dead walk the earth slaughtering everything.
I am not a Nazi, Jo. I am not supporting Nazism. I’m a classical liberal, and all political views aside…I am of the Dead. I sit with Hel and I watch as the Gods watch. But the simple fact is…yeah. For a lot of people Nazism is looking like the only solution to what is happening. Because let’s be honest Jo…can you think of another solution to situations like the migrant crisis in Europe? I can think of five…but there’s no way to implement them. It’s not going to stop until mass murder happens one way or the other. Europe’s probably going to turn into either the Reich or ISIS. It’s going to keep happening like it is right now. Hel, we’re already looking at a potential war if Poland, Austria, and a couple other places keep refusing to let their people be butchered and raped.
The people are dying. The dead have no hope, Jo. There’s only the “undead” now.
And I understand you trying to beat the grasping, skeletal hands coming out of the ground back into their graves. I really do. I don’t blame you. Anyone would do the same in the face of a metaphorical or literal zombie apocalypse. But the apocalypse is here. Ragnarok comes.
I started writing my posts trying to explain why Nazism was growing. And, well…here’s the truth. With a lot of spiritualism and metaphor, but it’s the truth. It was never about salvation, it was only marginally about who was right. It’s mostly about the devil who is offering a solution to a populace that is dead, dying, and has no hope.
Ironically, that’s exactly what Hitler did in the 1920s. And, it seems, that’s what he’s doing again now as we reach the 2020’s. A damned man offering salvation to the damned…with a blood price to be inevitably paid.
Jo, you are my friend. Please understand these words from the grave. Receive the council of the dead, just as your ancestors did. This is a prophecy of what is to be, just as it was in olden days. I am not supporting it. I only speak the prophecy. I am but the messenger. Do not shoot.
Regarding Jo’s post: TL:DR. Plus the first paragraph had me rolling my eyes.
Anyone with eyes to see can see that war is coming, one way or another.
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Sorry for the comment bomb.
I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit. And really, I don’t think Hitler even hated Jews. He hated Jews who were venal enough that they put their own desires above the needs of the greater people.
I’ve read that Hitler’s personal doctor was half Jewish, and that he did have a few high level staffers that were 100% Jewish. I think the difference is that they put the needs of Germany above their own needs or the needs of their tribe.
Good Gods. I can’t believe it’s come to me defending Hitler. Well, as they say, never say never….
And I’m one of those trying to rehabilitate the swastika/fylfot too. 🙂
Lucius Svartwulf Helsen said:
Comment bombs are fine.
Honestly, I’m with you. The stuff I’ve read paints a much different picture of Hitler and the Reich than we normally get. Is it 100% accurate? I have no idea, but it’s a different picture.
As far as the Jews go, it really does seem to be more about their actions than anything. Sure, nearly all the Jews got rounded up, but that seems as much they couldn’t be sure who to trust. Not unlike how the Japanese were rounded up in America. Of interesting note, you had to have at least 3 Jewish grandparents to be considered Jewish. Which is a lot more lenient than the Americas used to be with who was black.
I don’t know if I’m in part of the whole “rehabilitate the swastika” thing for…reasons I said in the post. I don’t know that any rehabilitation is possible. Merely living our lives without giving a fuck and being willing to defend ourselves if things get violent.
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